Is harmonic accuracy and timbre important at all?


Disclaimer: I am not Richard Hardesty in disguise. But I have reached similar ground after many years of listening and equipment swapping and upgrading and would enjoy discourse from a position that is simply not discussed enough here.

I feel a strong need to get on a soap box here, albeit friendly, and I don't mind a rigorous discussion on this topic. My hope is that, increasingly, manufacturers will take notice of this important aspect of music reproduction. I also know that it takes time, talent, money and dedication to accomplish accuracy of timbre in speaker design and that "shamanism" and "snake oil," along with major bux spent on fine cabinetry that may do little to improve the sound, exists everywhere in this industry.

I fully acknowledge that Dunlavy and Meadowlark, a least for now, are gone, and that only Vandersteen and Thiel survive amidst a sea of harmonically inaccurate, and frequently far more expensive, speakers.

Can you help me understand why anyone would want to hear timbre and harmonic content that is anything but as accurate as possible upon transducing the signal fed by the partnering amplifier? It seems to me if you skew the sonic results in any direction away from the goal of timbral accuracy, then you add, or even subtract, any number of poorly understood and potentially chaotic independent and uncontrollable variables to listening enjoyment.

I mean, why would you want to hear only some of the harmonic content of a clarinet or any other instrument that is contained on the recording? Why would you not want the speaker, which we all agree is the critical motor that conveys the musical content at the final stage of music reproduction, to provide you with as much as possible by minimizing harmonic conent loss due to phase errors, intentionally imparted by the speaker designer?

Why anyone would choose a speaker that does this intentionally, by design, and that is the key issue here, is something I simply cannot fathom, unless most simply do not understand what they're missing.

By intentional, I mean inverting the midrange or other drivers in phase in an ill-fated attempt to counter the deleterious effects that inexpensive, high-order crossovers impart upon the harmonic content of timbre. This simply removes harmonic content. None of these manufacurers has ever had the cojones to say that Jim Thiel, Richard Vandersteen or John Dunlavy were wrong about this fundamental design goal. And none of them ever tries to counter the fact that they intentionally manufacture speakers they know, by their own hand, are sonically inaccurate, while all the all the same in many cases charging unsuspecting so-called audiophiles outlandish summs of money.

Also, the use of multiple drivers assigned identical function which has clearly been shown to smear phase and creates lobing, destroying essentially the point source nature of instruments played in space that give spatial, time and phasing so important to timbre rendering.

I truly belive that as we all get better at listening and enjoying all the music there is on recordings, both digital and analog, of both good and bad recording quality, these things become ever more important. If you learn to hear them, they certainly do matter. But to be fair, this also requires spending time with speakers that, by design, demonstrably present as much harmonic phase accuracy that timbre is built upon, at the current level of the state of the art.

Why would anyone want a speaker to alter that signal coming from the amp by removing some harmonics while retaining or even augmenting others?

And just why in heck does JMLab, Wilson, Pipedreams and many others have to charge such large $um$ at the top of their product lines (cabinetry with Ferrari paint jobs?) to not even care to address nor even attempt to achieve this? So, in the end I have to conclude that extremely expensive, inaccurate timbre is preferred by some hobbyists called audiophiles? I find that simply fascinating. Perhaps the process of accurate timbre appreciation is just a matter of time...but in the end, more will find, as I did, that it does matter.
stevecham

Showing 6 responses by gmood1

I too have wondered the same thing. It has taken time and listening to understand why it is important. FWIW I agree with you competely. I do feel you may have opened Pandoras box. I also suggest a good flame retardant suit as things may get a little hot around here. :-)

Some confuse accuracy with dry and lifeless. It is all a perception of what one believes harmonic and timbre accuracy is. I look forward to Agoner's comments on the subject.
Great post songwriter!
"I suggest that anyone owning a pair of well designed time/phase coherent speakers for 6 months would never be able to go back to what most manufacturers claim as "hi end" again. I have been listening to Green Mountain Audio speakers for the last 3 years and I can now hear the crossover in every non time/phase coherent speaker I hear."

Glad I'm not the only one that notices this. I even hear it in 1st orders that aren't time/phase coherent.

Tarsando
Here's an article on the subject. You may become tired of reading it also. Phase, Time and Distortion in Loudspeakers .

Plato does make good points. There are certainly no perfect speakers. You pick your poison and live with it. I just hope designers don't get too far away from the time aligned and phase correct approaches.

With more and more people listening to compressed crap on Ipods. It looks dismal for the guys designing speakers without the hyped treble and pronounced midbass humps..

Jkalman ,

Recording engineers may use different speakers for listening to their music.This isn't how the sound is recorded. It is recorded through microphones.

Songwriter is refering to live unamplified music. It's up to the person to tolerate listening to Concert or Club type amplified music systems. Nothing wrong with it if you like listening to this stuff on a daily basis. Personally If I had to listen to the club amplified type music all the time it would give me a headache.

Several years back..I thought of it as you do. It wasn't until I sat down and really listened to some time/phase coherent speakers did I understand what the fuss was all about.

We all have different taste in music. This is one of the factors when buying speakers. Take for example highly compressed music. You listen to it in your car or on some big Cerwin Vegas it sounds good. Take the same recording and play it on a speaker without the raised treble or midbass hump...it will sound like shit!! LOL

The speaker allowed you to hear the recording as it was recorded and mixed with no help from the speaker to fill in the rest of the sore spots. The same goes for time/phase coherent speakers. You hear the timing in the recording as it was originally recorded through the mics and other recording equipment, not a mock up of what it should sound like.This stuff is tough to explain. Putting it in words isn't easy for me..but I understand the concept completely.

There are other important factors to loudspeaker design.These are just two of them.
The only speakers I've heard so far and spent any real time with that are close to harmonically accurate for me have been GMA Europas and my speakers the Brines Acoustic FTA-2000s. Some of the Thiel models do this well also. The Vandies have one of the flattest FRs I've seen. I thought the Meadowlarks also did Harmonics and Timbre well. They all may sound boring when playing mass market compressed crap however.

All are different designs but share similar traits. Well damped bass with no midbass humps, minimal phase shift, and no exaggrated treble. Also their FR responses are all extremely flat with minimal variations through the frequency range. I'm sure there are others I just haven't heard them .

I'm talking unamplified acoustic music without the hyping in the frequency extremes.
I agree tonal balance is a major part of the equation. I also agree all time/phase coherent speakers don't guarantee a pleasing sound. At the same time Bigtee does have a very good point. There should be a standard in creating a waveform as close to what the speaker is fed from the source. If you didn't have this what will you have in the end? Don't get me wrong..I like some flavor in the music. But I want to add it myself upstream with tubes ..etc. Having an extremely coloured speaker from the start isn't a good idea IMHO.

If I'd known this a few years ago, I could have save myself a lot of money and heartache . There are post all the time about room issues like fat bloated bass etc. If the consumer knew from the start that the speakers he's about to purchase have a 6dB hump from 50 hz through 200Hz by its very design. It may save him from some of the headaches audiophiles post about almost every day. Of course this is ignored...and it is all the rooms fault. This doesn't make sense too me. This is good for the room treament manufactures as the money just keeps rolling in. I'm not saying their not needed. What I'm saying is you may need less of them with a properly designed speaker.
As usual Opalchip conveys what I'm thinking better than I can convey myself ! LOL

Great post