Direct drive, idler wheel, belt drive. There are good and bad implementations of all of these, just like suspended and non-suspended tables.
BTW, your car analogy is a bit flawed when you consider what the engine's flywheel is designed to do. A stock car will have a heavy flywheel from the factory which helps get the car going from a standing start. When I used to drag race one of the first things we did was to lighten the flywheel just enough to help get the rpm's up quickly. Too much and you had trouble getting the car off the line. |
unfortunately, this thread has turned into a joke as cwlondon predicted. |
I posted in haste before and did not get my point across. I love the joking as much as anyone and don't mean to sound like a curmudgeon.
"I'm going to conclude from this meager participation that direct drive is a better performer than belt and few people are aware of the fact."
This seems more like a statement of what had already been accepted by Macrojack as fact. Since he is so quick to come to this conclusion I'm getting a sense that the point of starting this thread is something of fishing expedition, otherwise known as trolling. I'll stick with my original thoughts. That is, there trade-offs with all 'table designs. None is inherently better than the others, but the proof is in the implementation. There are good and bad examples of DD, idler, belt-drive, suspended, non-suspended, etc., and to dismiss all others for the sake of a chosen "golden" theory is short sighted, IMO. Kind of like the debate about whether or not digital is worth doing. |
Raul! What? Out of all those arms, cartridges and table you don't have a good idler wheel? I think you're a great candidate for a Lenco! |
Chris,
do you think you'll have a DD prototype ready for next month's open house? That would make for some more fun! |
Psychic! You truly are an animal! :) How are you adjusting to Fla?
Best,
Dan |
And, that Denver trip is less than 10 days away! I'm salivating all over the keyboard just thinking about it!
Microjack, if you'll allow me an observation. I get the impression that your real motivation for starting this thread, and coming to some of the conclusions you seem to have, was to somehow justify doing what you wanted to do. Sell your current table and buy a table that you had your eye, or curiosity, on. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm much the same way. However, there is a pervasive theme through many of the well thought out posts here. That is, all of the popular drives have their benefits and short-comings, it still comes down to implementation of the whole table.
Personally, I'd be much more interested in a shoot out between your Druids and a few other well regarded speakers. Not trying to hi-jack the thread, but the Zu's do have my interest. |
Zaikes, if you think about for a minute, moving to DD for marketing reasons alone would be a huge gamble (some might say insane), to say the least, from a business point of view. I've worked for start-up companies for almost 12 years and I can assure you if you swim against too strong of a current you will drown quickly. Chris can certainly speak for himself, but based on everything I've heard about him I doubt there is anything short of a sincere desire to improve the current state of the art being offered from Teres. Healthy skepticism is a good thing, pessimism is another issue. Especially when it is expressed from a position of absolutely no first hand knowledge of the table in question. But you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not trying to throwing darts at you, maybe just spill a little beer on your foot. :) Where did the animal go? |
I had the pleasure of hearing the new Teres 380 direct drive table (still prototype) last weekend in Dever. I won't say that it answers this question in absolute terms. I will say that Chris Brady has implemented a clearly superior Teres that will probably send many designers back to the drawing board. The 380 completely humiliated a 320 in tempo and gave a very life-like, snappy presentation. Don't pass up a chance to hear one! |
Ok, how about "humbled"? Anyone is welcomed to go hear these tables and apply whatever adjectives they wish. The point is that once we had gone through the progession of 280-320-380 no one needed, or wanted, to go back and confirm what they thought they were hearing between the 320 and 380. The difference was profound. Macrojack is correct that the difference in tonearms and cartridges does account for a good jump in dynamics. However, this difference does not accout for the superior tempo and attack to just about every note that is reproduced by the 380. It is definitely a Teres, but it is also a Teres with a great deal of snap and live-ness. Chris demonstrated the effect of applying more torque (there is a pot on the controller for this) so there was no doubt in my mind where this increase in performance was coming from. Cb does have some more refinements planned but I doubt these will change the basic presentation. Sorry to use a cliche, but this new Teres does strip away another layer that I doubt any of the other models can touch being as they all use the same motor, controller and belt drive. |
No offense at all, 4yanx. I understood what you meant and what the point of your question was. Macrojack is correct that the word humiliated can have a malicious connotation, but it also means humbled, which is the meaning I had in mind. I do accept that it may have sounded a bit sensational of me to use that word so that's why I suggested humbled. Enough with the semantics. :)
I went in expecting to hear a difference very much along the same lines as what 4yanx's describes. That is, I expected to hear a small difference but more on the lines of a cartridge swap. But the difference was much more profound. Perhaps this is because we don't often hear this level of change in the tempo of music reproduction. There is also, I believe, much more brass used in the platter so it is not the same as just taking a 320 and installing a direct drive motor. Again, this could help explain the obvious increase in dynamics along with the Reference arm and Universe. I was having too much fun just listening to enguage Chris in a detailed discussion.
I agree that CB's accomplishments don't prove that DD is the only true path to perfection and I can't say how the sound of the 380 might compare with a Walker or Rockport, etc. Perhaps the difference between a 360 and 380 is less profound but I suspect that the increase in snap alone will easily seperate the 380 from the other Teres models. |
Drubin, I was expecting this question and I have thought about it some. My take that on it is rather than just being belt or direct drive that makes the difference it is more the proper application of torque. But to more directly answer your question I would assume that this is true. I wouldn't stretch this out and say that all DD's are going to be superior to belt drives in tempo and speed stability and the same would apply to idler wheels, IMHO. |
I'm pretty sure it was a clear belt that was used on both the 280 and 320. |
Good one, Tom! :) A good question as well. I suspect that the SP-10 would have better tempo but perhaps not quite the dynamics. That's just my humiliated guess. (Really wish I hadn't missed the Druids!) |
