you should remove your Dac as well, it's not part of computer audio!, you are running half computer audio, I already stated that cd-players, Dacs, transports are all in the same family to me. |
Hi Audioengr, I agree with some of what you said totally!, great explanation, Steve wrote,- Its not the cable that is usually the limiter here. Its the USB interface design and associated clocking circuitry. Most USB DACs have inferior USB interface designs, but a few are world-class. Its a lot like vinyl cartridges.,In addition to the USB cable, the common-mode noise must be addressed on the USB cable. This is the noise on the ground wire, not the signal wires.The question of whether computer audio can be great or not is silly. The answer is that there are no technical roadblocks that cannot be overcome, just like other technologies, Just requires a clever, experienced designer.,end quote,,,steve, I was not aware that usb cables have a common ground like balanced analog cables?, never heard of that, if they do not, usb cables are inferrior, having an interface to help or force the usb cable to work better, still does not change the fact a usb cable is inferrior, I am not talking about interfacees, just the usb cable period, thankyou steve. |
I believe computer audio is a passing fad, computers do not have quality capacitors, transformers, power supplies,not balanced, no real analog section,then there is the endless Rabit hole of having this and that software etc.., I know many that have returned to Dacs and cd-players., computer audio will go in the way of sacd! |
Hi steve, I stand behind my last post, in addition, Cds are simple to use, so are records, just tring to keep a computer running great to make these post is enough, I cannot imagine the heart ache of computer audio for me!, I will take simplicity over computer audio that may or may not sound better than whats possible with dacs and cd-players, also usb is a very poor connection for audio to me, this was never intended for audio use to the begin with. |
@ onhwy61, Hi, I am sorry for my outburst of loosing my patience, however, I believe cables are a important componet in every given system to the point, my cables are the most exspensive part of my system, I have NO regrets, their is no hyperboil with believing that a usb cable will NEVER have the profound sound of a world class balanced interconnect like the Tara Labs Zero Gold with HFX ground station, as a matter of fact, Tara had to down size the interconnect at the terminations to get the interconnect to work with balanced terminations, now, that said, how in the world would they EVER fit a usb termination on this interconnect?, The interconnect's girth is bigger than most speaker cables out there, LOL! |
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Your kidding!, they will not EVER make a $15,950.00 usb cable!, really!, I have a $15,950.00 balnced cable! very incredible sounding to say the least!, state of the art!, computer audio will never reach that point of world class systems, case closed! |
It does not matter how good a computer audio source can be or hope to be, If the terminations and cables used can never amount to mid-fi, It is impossible to achieve world class sound if it is not possible to have the cables to transfer such data!, This is a bust, limited to say the least. |
I was going to ignore the last post to me, I cannot bring myself to do it, saying there is an error in my logic was very incredibly wrong, so I will attemt to get you to understand again, I have a $25.00 RCA interconnect made by-for vincent audio that came with the digital player, Then I have and use a $15,950.00 retail balanced 1-meter interconnect, I gurantee you there is a HUGE difference in performance between the two cables on my digital player, I also have a $3,000.00 balanced interconect 1-meter, The most exspensive cable is a Tara labs Zero Gold with HFX grounding station, The next exspensive cable is a Tara labs The One cable, To my ears the zero cable makes the model called the One sound broken, now I got that out of the way, The most exspensive USB cables made are very inexspensive and the performance is about the same as the vincent RCA interconnect, there is some USB cables that are $300.00 under $1,000.00 period, ask your self why is that?, lets see here, USB is NOT for audio, it is for data, and the usb termination is way to small for a world class cable to be terminated with, Tara Labs sales a usb cable, it's not much money at all, so At the end of the day, It does not matter if you have a live band cabled to your system through a USB cable, this is not logic, It is a astonishing FACT, by useing the usb cable even with a live band, the out come is so inferrior because the cable cannot reproduce performance as close to the real thing as possible, I understand that some computer audio is better than my cd-player for a source, My fact here is that with the cables I have on my player versus comuter audio's best with a usb cable used for audio, there is absolutly no way possible for the sound out come to be better than what I have, if that were possible, the cable companys would go out of bussiness, that would be saying my cables are worthless, get a $25.00 usb cable, that works better, LOL!, I also understand computer audio can sound very good, and may give user perks such as a menu to walk around with, that's great, I get it, But as I said before, I am tring to get the best sound possible, to be in the realm of world class audio, I cannot achieve that with such inadequete very poor cables such as usb, if you cannot understand this, then I am lost for words and give up, best of luck to you. |
I was going to ignore the last post to me, I cannot bring myself to do it, saying there is an error in my logic was very incredibly wrong, so I will attemt to get you to understand again, I have a $25.00 RCA interconnect made by-for vincent audio that came with the digital player, Then I have and use a $15,950.00 retail balanced 1-meter interconnect, I gurantee you there is a HUGE difference in performance between the two cables on my digital player, I also have a $3,000.00 balanced interconect 1-meter, The most exspensive cable is a Tara labs Zero Gold with HFX grounding station, The next exspensive cable is a Tara labs The One cable, To my ears the zero cable makes the model called the One sound broken, now I got that out of the way, The most exspensive USB cables made are very inexspensive and the performance is about the same as the vincent RCA interconnect, there is some USB cables that are $300.00 under $1,000.00 period, ask your self why is that?, lets see here, USB is NOT for audio, it is for data, and the usb termination is way to small for a world class cable to be terminated with, Tara Labs sales a usb cable, it's not much money at all, so At the end of the day, It does not matter if you have a live band cabled to your system through a USB cable, this is not logic, It is a astonishing FACT, by useing the usb cable even with a live band, the out come is so inferrior because the cable cannot reproduce performance as close to the real thing as possible, I understand that some computer audio is better than my cd-player for a source, My fact here is that with the cables I have on my player versus comuter audio's best with a usb cable used for audio, there is absolutly no way possible for the sound out come to be better than what I have, if that were possible, the cable companys would go out of bussiness, that would be saying my cables are worthless, get a $25.00 usb cable, that works better, LOL!, I also understand computer audio can sound very good, and may give user perks such as a menu to walk around with, that's great, I get it, But as I said before, I am tring to get the best sound possible, to be in the realm of world class audio, I cannot achieve that with such inadequete very poor cables such as usb, if you cannot understand this, then I am lost for words and give up, best of luck to you. |
Joecasey, There is some world class transports out there that computer audio cannot touch period, if computer audio could, then this is the biggest fleasing in american history of audio!, look at DCS for an example, LOL!, to get this straight here, I am saying transports, Dacs, cd-players are all in the same catorgory, that is NOT computer audio, though I agree, cd-players,dacs, transports are computers, no doubt, however, they are dedicated to audio! |
whatever you believe, I am saying cables make a difference, regardless of the source, you are clueless, you can come to hear my system if you do not believe me!computer audio is a Bust! |
very funny, The exspensive interconnect is one of the most profound pieces of audio I have EVER heard in my life!, then, I never said I paid the retail price, I never pay retail for anything in audio. |
Audioengr, The reason I bought the cables I have is based on pure performance, Price had NOTHING to do with it, if it did, I would not have Bought them, I do not agree with cable pricing, or alot of the cost of High-end audio, there is a 600% to 1000% mark-up on the retail prices out there any way, also, I wanted to point out that you said, your cd-player will become an antique, no disrespect steve, I like alot of your products, I am perplexed on why you said that,, Computers are obsolete before you can get them out the store after purchase, most Dacs, Transports, CD-players have a much longer shelf life than a computer, all audio will become an antique in a matter of time, and if you were meaning that cd-players, Transports, Dacs, will go the way of becoming antiques, that's funny, you sale dacs, It will be a long time before spinning disc is over, If ever, an example of what I am saying is the analog turntable, still around, cheers to you steve. |
Enjoy the music, I believe I have made a valid point about usb cables and what is and is not true computer audio, gentleman, enjoy the thread, I have said all I can here, carry on. |
I will also add, If your cable was as profound as you believe, you would be profoundly Rich!, there would be no need to do digital audio again, you would be surely in the cable bussiness, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to a cable of the caliber of the Tara Labs Zero Gold with HFX grounding station, you have told me before, you never have heard of it or listened to it, in turn, I will take your post as a grain of salt! |
@ Audioengr, Hi Steve, your last post about computers was really what you do, most people buy, as you said, the newest greatest whatever computer, then, like I said, when they go to walk out the store, another computer is better before the door hits them in the ass, however, my desk-top computer works great for me, kinda old, your intel chip you developed is one tuff proccessor, it's the Intel core 2,,, you did have a hand in the development of this proccessor??, of course I am running windows 7 on it instead of the vista that was on it originally. |
LOL!, If you want to suffer real computer audio, hook your computer straight to you amp, your computer has a volume control, useing a dac is essentially a cd-player cut in half, thus a dac is part of the family of cd-players!, true computer audio without a dac is a BUST! |
onhwy61, you are correct on my cable profound tweek, I am sorry,I am tired at this point at tring to get my point across, I have discussed this same issue on other threads, they understand and agree with my findings, tring to express the truth here is like talking to the deaf, BTW, FWIW, I have done computer audio with a usb cable before to a dac and cd-player, I also have used a computer straight to a reciever, not using a dac or cd-player before I ever posted my statements, neitherless, I believe I have said all that I can here. |
Agear, I'm sorry, I said goodby in my last post, If you like, you can find me on the Tara Labs cable thread, I will accomadate all your questions there, I'm done here! |
why would you say a remark like that, was not nice at all, I invited you to come to another thread, we talk about anything there, it is the peoples thread, any topic is welcomed there. |
Agreed!, Thankyou Guidocorona, you are a gentleman. |
Grins!, yes, this hobby needs more good humor, after all, they are just mere stereo systems, or are they?, LOL! |
cerrot, I agree with your truth!, usb is a fricken bust!,I have said that here till i'm tired of it, any way, doing computer auio without usb is possible and should be done by all! |
wow!, you guys do not have nothing better to do, really, come on, a tweak, I do not think so!, my cables are the main componet of the system!, I build like no one you know, If a componet does not sound good or has a forward sound stage, that componet is gone!, there is more ways to skin a cat here to get a sound an individual wants, I am not asking anyone to like my cables or the way I build, the answer to your question, I have a 1-meter balanced Tara Labs Zero Gold with HFX grounding station interconnect running from digital source direct to amplifier, and I have the Tara labs Omega 10" jumper cables on my bi-amp speakers, I have the Tara Labs Omega Gold 6ft speaker cables on the speakers as well, and I have the Tara Labs 3ft cobalt power cord with oyaide terminations, on the cd-player, The amp is a brand new moddified Krell 700cx, meaning the caps are 2014 that was not available in the production year of my amp in 2005, yes they sound a whole lot better than the caps previously, that Krell did them selfs a couple months back, yes my interconnect cost more than any one thing in my system, yes my speaker cables cost more than my interconnect, the sound is very profound to me, at the end of the day, all that matters is what I live with for a system that sounds good to my ears, thankyou gentleman. |
opps, oh, the noise floor, My cables do a staggering 4 pico/farads per foot of capacitance, what does you cables do?, I can litterally hear the musicians turn the pages of their music books and feet shoffel on the floor while the music is played, a spectacular wow factor to me! |
one more time!, computer audio is a bust! |
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Hi Bcgator, I enjoyed your post, you are correct, however, I will not take the plunge of computer audio on my main system that I am tring to build, computer audio along with a vinyl set-up would be great for a second system that I will be building, this will have an active pre-amp or likly an intergrated amp, Here is one thing no one on this thread realized, at the cost of the cables I have and that I will be up-grading to, I cannot afford all them cables!, to keep my main system as simple as I can for pure signal transmission, and attempt to get the clearest sound I can afford, the main system will have nothing but an interconnect and speaker cables, and jumper cables on the speakers, these fellas do not know that I agree that I should be up with the times, it would be fun to do a second system consisting of computer audio and a turn table set-up, of course I already have the Tara Labs model The One 1-meter balanced analog interconnect and 6ft speaker cables in the closet to start a second system, I will ask these gentleman for their help with computer audio when the time comes, when the money is available!, right now, this main system is killing me money wise!, I do not have regrets for the cables I have on that system at all, these two systems will be two different anaimals, the main, the Best state of the art that I can afford, the second would be a build to a particular price point consisting of the computer audio these chaps have talked me into, all I was saying all along was that a usb cable and the usb terminations cannot perform to the caliber of the cables I have now on the main system, I would be very happy to get some performance out of alot cheaper cables, the Tara The one is no cheap cable by no means!, It's performance is very musical and I will always love the sound of that model, However, the cost of out-fitting with that cable model will not cause a re-morgage of the house like the cables on the main system!, cheers gentleman. |
Get-em Cerrot!, I was made fun of extensivly on this thread for saying all that I have about usb cables and terminations, I was polite as I could be, and explained very well, did not matter, I suppose we know NOTHING, and the mass knows it all, Ha,Ha,LOL!, It's all fun gentleman, do whats best for you, I plan on it. |
That is funny steve, that measurement is really the same, However, the rest of your cable has nowhere near the technology and sound of the cable I am talking about, If you do not believe me, research all that you can about the Tara Labs Zero Gold with HFX grounding station and get back to me, likly, your tone will change with inverasment! |
There is more, The new two top level Tara labs interconnects, The Evolution Zero does 2 1/2 pico/farods per-foot, and the other Evolution Granmaster does 2 pico/farods a foot of capacitance, yes, I am going to the Evolution Zero, I am only mentioning this because of a comment on measurements, in the end, the measurements are interesting, However, the sound is the end game! |
Agear, mmmm, that was some enjoyable posts, I can learn from you,I am being honest here, education is always the answer to all questions, what I learn, I may be able to share with others in this hobby, Would be nice to be an asset to many others in our hobby of extreme audio, thankyou, happy listening |
Agear, come on, I know better than that, I know many audiophiles that do not talk on the audiogon forums because they do not want to be bashed for what they own, I was warned about talking about some of my equipment, Agear, I'm a guppie compaired to some people I talk to with super systems right here in the u.s.a., and I know you are kidding anyway, cheers. |
Hi charles1dad, I have foremost been a Texas-instruments-Burr Brown Dac chip fan!, I owned many, the 1704 was good, The 1796 that I have now is the most liked for my system, the 1794 I did not know about, looks to be the next endeavor I get in a next player for sure, I find Burr brown chips to be less fatigueing, and all about musicality, I just researched this 1794 chip, I can see why the best names in digital are tring it out with there units, go ahead and read all about the 1794, what it does with the componet it's self, other than the useual tech info that all other dac chips are concerned with, is incredible! |
Agear, Congrats on the Aries!,Happy listening. |
charles, the 1794 allows for direct coupling of the signal instead of out put capacitors,and there is more!, and as a seasoned audiophile that I know you are, this is best!, Incredible! |
Agear, waite a minute, I thought I was out of this sinceless thread!, please carry on, but without my mention please, I have said all that I can here, what more must I say?, I poped in to talk to charles about the Burr-Brown dac chips, LOL!, Not computer audio!, cheers. |
What's one of the better computer audio software available to rip music to cds for playback through my cd player for my system?, Thankyou gentleman in advance. |
Hi Joecasey, and every one, I have on my computer Ashampoo studio 8, I burn cds to computer to blank cds for recording, full format, no compressed files, and yes, down loads to, and un compress them to normal format to go on cd for play back, I just do not know if the soft ware I have that my computer repair friend put on this computer he built for me is High-end, I know fellas, Do Not laugh here at me, Though I still believe computer audio cannot match a good digital or analog cable on a profound dac or cd-player, I would like to learn from all of you!, I do need to be with the times!, maybe a state of the art music server would be great, like I believe TBG may be getting?,currently, I would like to attempt to do my best with little money to achieve best results for recording?, I am going to write down the three software recommendations thus far, how much money does something like this cost, what do any of you think about the Ashampoo studio 8 I mentioned?, cheers. |
wow!, This thread is still around!, I admitt, I agree entirely with knownothing's post, I have talked to many distributors and dealers, They believe, with the thousands of cd's that are out there in every one's library of music, disc spinners will be here for a very, very, long time from now, although computer audio and streamers are taking hold of some market, it is really only 5% of the entire high-end audio!, Most of the market bares transports, dacs, cd-players, analog turn tables, we all may be dead and gone before computer audio surpasses the way of digital and analog as we know it now, may be an opinion of the dealers and distributors, However, I must say, I agree with them, cheers. |
Hi Mitch2, what was the most used sources at RMAF 2014?, and second most used?, I do not know, since this was a show, I believe it would be crazy to have a computer set-up with all that is involved to have one on a system, you think? |
Mitch2, I was only asking, I thought you were there to tell us what was most used,I still believe spinners will be around for along time to come, most world class dacs sound best with transports that you do not use an inferrior cable like usb,I may very well set up a comuter audio, or streamer set up in the second system I will build, however, I will not pay all the money for numerous cables to do it like I have with my main system that has one I/C, one pair of speaker cables, can you imagine how much that would cost? at the end of the day, with computer audio, it may be fun, may sound very good, will never surpass the sound quality of such world class cables that I have on main system, if it could, Man!, I would sell all of it off and buy some cheap $2,000.00 a meter usb cable, and buy lots of them and gladly jump onto the computer audio band wagan for main system, and be able to buy brand new automobile with money left over! |
Ptss, Hi, believe it or not, I believe they still make some reel to reel units, brand new very high-end ones!, I always wanted one and have liked the analog sound that I heard many years ago, I bet the new ones are spectacular and could compete well against any music media today, I recently watched a youtube video of a reel to reel set-up of one of the recent CES shows, I was astonishied of the sound, all the equipment that was used with the reel to reel was top equipment, cheers |
cerrot, about the reel to reel, Awsome, is it old?,what do you have?, they are now making new very high tech one's for some reason, I suppose like record players, people love good analog sound, cheers. |
cerrot, man, I envy you for the reel to reel player you have,you got a damn good deal from the record store,I did not know that new reel to reel tapes are the prices you specified,wow!, I also agree on your take on good analog done right, amen brother, warmth and emotion!, I finally found some one that has something I really like to have, cheers. |
Steve, what kind of problems are you talking about could happen at the reciever?, does that mean amplifier or pre-amp? |
Thankyou Steve, That was informative, cheers. |
Hi Grey9hound, congrat's on your McIntosh MC2205, drop by the Tara thread some time, good to see you about. |
