Is a Hydra the real deal? How do you know?

Tvad

thanks. I suppose that's what burns my butt about having to add a better cord, or even 'a' cord is simply that . . .spending $500 to $1000, for conditioning devices and right away having to get into the pocket even deeper, yet again... and not by choice... by need. One would think makers of these items would supply at least something with the item.

I didn't know Radio Shack had that sort of cord... I understood it to be different from the 'IEC' types... and of course didn't give it much thought either.

I have a PS Audio UPC 200. Stock cord that came with it.... matter of fact that was a primary reason though not the sole reason, I got the UPC instead of a Hydra. Always felt I want to see what it does first.... then maybe make changes... just old fashioned I guess.

How would you say the Hydra 2, or 4, differs from the upc 200 given a like cord is on each of the units...?? I'm trying to decide wether or not to add either a Hydra 2, 4, or simply go with something like the Equitech unit that handles 1300 or 1600 watts... I use the UPC strickly for the amp in High Current mode... one pc on one outlet and the other on the second set of outlets... and I do like the improvement and punch a lot... but it is minimal - noticeable, but minimal... I did swap about some cords in place of the OEM cord... and Yep! It's better with better cords... It's also doubtful I'll be spending more for a cord than the unit it attaches to is worth. Doesn't make sens. A $500 item with a $750 cord on it? Ah, well... no. that'd kind of like putting 3000 bucks worth of rims and tires on a 1000 dollar car... to me anyway.

Tvad - Warrenh

Tvad. got it. I suppose there would be far less threads if the underlying answer was always to be "..try it in your system if you really want to find out how good it is." ...and I do see the value of that statement. Really. but let's pause for a moment... ever count how much junk is out there to try? Lots.

Rather than take the 'scenic' route in buying/renting & trying just everything on the mkt. I use the threads I post to 'cull the herd'. Limit the area I need to prospect for gold in. Already in this post thanks to you, I now know getting a cord for the Hydra is easy enough. . . and it seems best suited to digital gear... for the most part. I tend to agree with that.... as Warren said. If in fact the amount of change that comes from the addition of the Python VX to my CDP is indicative of the type of change/improvement Hydras provide, perhaps one is in my future.

A fair amount of concern revolves around 'conditioning' for the amp... right now it's the vk500. The plan is to go to the vk600 at some point. That's a fair amount of current draw with eighter amp. With just a preamp & CDP, (I'm going to add a tuner & multiformat player later), I don't need tons of outlets... but will need ample wattage supply... and I'd not wish to 'change' the sonics any more than I have to which set me onto the 'passive' path rather than the 'active' one in conditioning.

It's likely just my inclination, and past notions from previous work experiences that have me seeing how much money to put where.... Like warrenh said... Putting the 'money' onto the cords attached to the components and not onto the conditioner would be what I think should be the best way to go. My analogy of the 'rims and old car' may not have been the best. All I am saying is "if it takes one to spend a likewise amount for power cords as it does for components or even near their price... just how good is the component? ...if it needs thousands of bucks of power cords to sound great... somethings wrong with that picture. There needs to be limits. there should also be options available to the consumer. Proper marketing strategy would be to allow for inclusion of a cord with any conditioner at a reduced price at point of sale. That's the way American retail has always worked... buy more - pay less.... it's the way of things. that won't change... and consumers, by and large, expect it.

As the tone of my post seems demonstrative add most forward, do not take it as such. It's my displeasure with being forced to accommodate peripherals to extract a level of quality & performance from highly regarded items in the first palce that continually irks me. It is not your sage advice, or thoughts I take issue with. Not at all. My position may change in the future if money no longer reamins quite so scarce, though it's not likely. all things considered, it is a shame that one needs not only to spend copius bucks for supposedly top flight gear, but additional bucks to have it perform as it should in the first place. Guess it's just like racing. When I raced bikes the saying was, "If you want to go faster the real race is which one crosses the finish line first... the scooter, or the money?" It costs a lot to go faster. In that hobby or this, there is a "point of diminishing returns'. I'll be happy to live right there. Right at that point. No further. For me, as you said about perspectives, "That would be my perspective'.

Tvad, and Warrenh - you're both right... I'll lean towards Warrnh's notion for the most part though...especially with conditioning devices. All your insights are most appreciated and very valuable to me... as always. Sincerely, I thank you.

Tvad. I meant nothing untowards. My position remains that a seller of components should supply what it needs to operate with as standard proceedure. That's all. Period. Without even some baseline item to compare to one has no refference.... apart from their own endeavors and the experience gained from them as the result. It's a poor statement to require one purchase additional items for operation of the gear at the onset. ...but as their bread and rests in power cord production, it is understandable. Just eletist... and a poor precedent. Hope none of the other manufacturers get together with that notion... sure would hate to buy tube gear without even OEM tubes in them. . .or components without stock power cords on them. I just like having a choice. I hope nothing I've posted was taken personally as it was not intended that way. Simply a broad staatement regarding Shunyata's propensity to grab as much as they can from the consumer. and again, I bought some of their stuff already and may buy more... so the answer to the question remains without resolution. Apart from this: You can't ever know until they present the item with what it takes to function right off the bat. Too bad. I simply hope they're listening. Sure couldn't hurt their PR.

Grant. thank you for the interest.

RE: Contacting shunyata directly...
After three phone calls and as many emails... without a response, I simply gave up trying to ascertain the bonafide answer.. and accepted the current 'norm', or practice of Hydras being sold sans cords. so it wasn't for lack of trying, I assure you of that. That indeed though did play a good part of my buying decision, I must say.

I didn't think what I was being told by the one dealer made sense - "No cord?" At all? "Nope." then asked another Shunyata dealer and got the same answer. With the affirming statement "Because of the varied applications one may put the Hydra (s) to use with various components." following. Well. OK. Sort of made sense...

When I was in retail, I was at point of sale the 'representative of the manufactuers products I sold. A direct reflection of them and to some degree their agent. I made it a point to relay only the manufacturers position as to available options, and warranties. If I didn't know, I would ask either thier local sales rep or them directly. I also made a point of regular contact with the manufacturers' reps so no misinformation could be passed to the consumer that would reflect negatively either upon the manufacturer or my company. That notion is simply put, 'Good business.' ... for everyone concerned.

I can not count the number of people with whom I spoke over the past few months that indicated a likewise statement about no cord accompanying Hydras. Given those experiences along with my interest, and desire to find 'the' fit... I've rented, experiemented, tried several Shunyata products, and bought and paid for at least the one I own... taking into consideration price, 'support', or in my case at least, it's lack.

I do appreciate this, the latest bit of info from a most responsible Shunyata source to the contrary - however belated. Thank you. Perhaps some promulgation and stressing of what is common sales tactics versus the truth of things is in order.

Consumers do like having a choice.

In the "For what it's worth" department, I suppose I should follow up on my querry based upon actual comparisons and an at length monolouge to that end will soon be posted in the reivews section here at Audiogone. Suffice it to say that personal experience with Shunyata revealed to me a company willing to go that extra mile to accomodate it's customers. Additionally, to resolve issues surrounding 'mis-imformation'. It is certainly most energizing to see a company initiate and maintain such a posture. Bravo!

On the Question portion... How do you know what a Hydra does if no cord is supplied with it?

Naturally as is posted above, that error is or has been remedied. A Venom cord, as was related to me can be had as standard issue. In the case of the passive conditioner, I found a lean towards more the smoother end in my system, and less a dynamic addition. This notation is subjective of course and was based upon a comparison to a PS audio UPC 200, both conditoners using the same power cord itteration, save one of the two cords was set to accomodate a 20A IEC fitting for connection to the Hydra while the other like wise cord was fitted with a 15A IEC connection. Apart from the plugs being dissimilar on one end they were identical.

Another point I'd make is that the conditioners, both UPC200 & HYDRA, take on the character of the cord and integrate that aspect into the system. Certainly they do a more than fair job of reducing hash & junk from off the power line as is their purpose. Attaching different cords to the passive conds allowed for some interesting results. Still in all I found the UPC to be more the dynamic of the two units. The Hydra being the more 'refined'... both units atttenuate noise, and add a factor of smoothing to the soundscape. I was limited to the one identical power cord testing episode though. I've tried several cords on the UPC and all have impacted the system with the character of the cord being the predonminate 'change' in the system... I do not doubt one bit that a more dynamic cord applied to the Hydra would provide a more dynamic impact to one's system, however.

The bottom line as I see it is that passive conditioners are substantially dependant upon the supply cord to a system than is their own subtractive impact upon power line abberations.

both units have options the other does not... and they also have their own 'character' with or without a cord being supplied. the Hydra additionally 'filters' both ways, coming and going and reamins steady in it's 'quieting' function, the UPC tends to slowly develop it's level of quieting to it's peak, hence power outages (however brief), temporairly detract from it's performance level as it has then to regain it's peak once more. the Hydra seemed unaffected by outages once broken in. one last note here is that the Hydra configuration differs from the UPC in that the supply cord enters the unit in the rear, and the supplied cords enter on the opposite side of the conditioner... this can be quite the useful method for connecting devices. All the supplys and supplied cords on the UPC are on the same side and may or may not pose an issue for connecting gear.

Lastly ... the UPC 200 has one option the Hydra does not have, it can be relegated to one of two levels of quieting via a switch underneath the unit. In HIGH CURRENT, all four outlets are in parallel. you get the highest level of quieting according to the manufacturer there... as much as 60db. using the DUAL MODE setting, the pair of outlets are separated for use with dissimilar devices, ie., digital and analog. The quieting factor is diminished as well by about 20db... again according to PS audio... according to me, yeah, it does lessen the quieting a touch by going to the DUAL MODE function. In dual mode the hydra and UPC are about the same to these ears in terms of the elimination of power line problems..

There are a few more items separating the two units from one another and I'll describe them where they should be described... Hopefully in a head-to-head review of the two units shortly in the Audiogone review section...

AS with all of this high end audio hobby, results are subjectively determined. As is seen in just this one thread from the "threadees" posts. The concrete answer though is "Yes. the Hydra does add an element of conditioning to the system, and does quite the job too for a passive unit. The cord one chooses to use will also become a factor." Just how much a difference this will make in a system depends... So is it "The real deal?" Well, it certinaly is "A real deal", to be sure. Whether or not it is 'the' deal is once more 'the' subjective decision.

Again many thanks for those who contributed here and continue to contribute, I thank you all. Especially Shunyata for their hands on approach to clear the air as to their products applications and use, as wella as their stance on attending to customer inquiries and satisfaction. Were it so with the rest of manufacturers out there... audiophillia would be a lot more fun.