Ipod Dock with direct out?????

The MSB Ipod doc is much better than the Wadia. They actually re-clock the digital signal so that they reduce jitter to almost zero. The Wadia does not. This unit will actually be like adding a transport to your DAC(in some cases it sounds a little better than a transport).

http://www.sound4sale.com/

Geez guys...a little hostile, don't you think? Seriously, buy the Wadia. I don't care. I'm not a dealer. I have just looked at the specs and I have heard the MSB, which actually performs a little bit better than my Lector transport(which is an amazing transport-look at the reviews). If you guys don't think jitter matters, then...cool. I don't care. If you think sending an extreme amount of jitter to your dac is a good idea, then...cool. Go to this link and take a look at the digital output from your ipod. This isn't the kind of jitter that a DAC is use to getting. http://www.sound4sale.com/iDock.php Believe me guys I much rather buy the Wadia. It costs a lot less but until I see where they solve this problem I'm saving up for the MSB.

T-Bone, yes the price is for real, but I have heard it and they do an amazing job. The Ipod's digital signal has significant jitter in it. They reclock it down to almost zero. You pay a premium for this but you get a piece that will turn your Ipod into a real high end transport. When you consider that the Lector transport sells for $5,300 and is one of the best on the market the MSB is actually a good deal.

Brian,

A. "These statements have no merit" Not the nicest way to start a discussion. At least not in my world but hey whatever.

B. a. A lot of DAC's don't have the greatest clock re-generators in them. The Lector happens to be one(but not only) of the exceptions. b. The amount of re clocking that needs to be done for the Ipod signal is beyond what most clock re generators are designed for. If you examine the Ipod signal it's very messy compared to a regular CD.
c. The ISB actually uses a proprietary technology instead of a clock re generator. It is an actual digital signal processor that not only re-clocks the signal but also cleans it up producing a bit for bit copy of the original CD.

d. The Wadia has no re-clocker or DSP. It's a straight digital output. Also MSB modifies the Ipod so that the digital signal is sent from the internal DAC to the ISB. Wadia uses software to create their digital signal.

Like I said if you think that's sufficient that's cool. I don't care. It's not good enough for me so I am going the get the MSB.

Happy Listening Folks

T_Bone,

Yes in theory the Pace Car could be used for jitter(though I don't know how good it is never having used it). However it would not solve the other matter of cleaning up the Ipod signal which if you look at it is pretty distorted when compared to a CD sine curve.

T_bone, to be honest I talked to the guys and it was getting a little technical for me, but sufice to say that there is distortion in the direct digital Ipod signal that goes beyond just jitter. So in effect the ISB dock reprocesses each bit getting rid of all the garbage so that it matches the original bit on the CD. I can't give a better explanation. Sorry.

Brian,

I was actually referring to someone else's comment as hostile however I did not find your's polite.

I called MSB to clarify things. The MSB Idoc uses a proprietary DSP to reduce jitter to 7 picometers. Industry standards consider 100 picometers to be good.

As far as other distortion I was wrong about that part and wanted to correct it.

Look if the Wadia contains that kind of DSP that can reduce jitter to that low of an amount I will be happy to buy it. It's much cheaper and comes in a pretty box.

As far as the picture used in their ad I will call tommorrow and find out. You should call them too. They are very open and honest. Their engineers have been trying to get a hold of a Wadia for testing themselves. They want to see what Wadia is doing and if their unit is indeed equal to theirs.

I would like to point out though that Wadia's bit for bit could be the bit for bit in picture a. If that's the case I'll be getting the MSB and you can get the Wadia :)

You guys we're correct about one thing I shouldn't judge the Wadia before it comes out.

Neal, great please let us know. I assume you are going to compare it to the sound of your transport. How did you get it? I thought they haven't been released yet.

Brian,

Look I agree with you about something I shouldn't have knocked the Wadia without hearing it.

As soon as I can order a Wadia I am going to take it to my friends house who has a an MSB and do a side by side. If the Wadia is as good or better not only will i let everyone know I will buy one.

I will say one thing, not all internal reclockers in DACS are equal. If the MSB truly gets jitter down to 7 picometers, and the industry standard for good is 100 picometers, then that is pretty amazing.

The funny thing about this whole debate is I'm not even a digital guy. I love analog and do 95% of my listening on it. In fact I have not enjoyed digital until recently. The Lector Digicode/Digidrive has made listening to CD's a pleasurable experience.

The only thing I know is the MSB is on par with the Digidrive as far as sound quality. That is pretty amazing. If the Wadia is too then great.

Anyway I'm done. I'm going to go listen to some LP's.

Justin

Great Neal.

I know this is a big request but can you open the box and look inside. A lot of us have been curious what Wadia's packing in there. I understand if you don't want to but I am really curious if it's just wires or if they have some sort of chip in there. I know it's a big request so again I understand if you don't want to.
Justin

T_bone,

Yeah I figure there has to be some kind of chip in there too. I learned yesterday that not all of the pins are used on the Ipod and that one of the unused ones can send the digital signal. You still need to tell the Ipod to do it though. Somebody said it was software but I don't see how that would work(unless you load the software on your computer and then hook up your Ipod and then I don't know what). So I agree it is probabaly a chip that tells the Ipod to send it.

Carl, we're talking about putting lossless copies of your whole cd collection on to your IPOD and using it as the transport running into a DAC.

a. for 379 don't complain about build quality. what do you expect.

b. in evaluating the wadia it seems to me if your looking for a convenient transport for your ipod that will produce near cd quality it's a nice solution.

c. the question for me is how will it sound with a highly resolving system like mine. I know that the msb sounds as good as my lector transport ie indiscernable from cd. the only jitter my lector digicode clock generator has to deal with is that produced by the digital cable. the big question is whether the wadia produces this kind of sound quality