Here is what I've been using with very good results, a bit stiff, but great bang for the buck... Belden 5000UE
INTERNAL CABLING- Heres some choices, give me your two cents on these cables..... Please _
So here is what I'm working on.
The cabling in my Mirage M1's is 12 gauge zip cord, that has oxidized and turned green at the terminations. Problem is I don't have a huge amount of cash to spend on new cabling, as I've spent most my money on replacing the existing caps in the crossover, with Jantzen superior and Standard Z caps (theres like 20 caps in each crossover). I need close to 50 feet for the two speakers and I only have 75-120 to spend on the cabling, this is a shoe string situation. I can't stand the idea of leaving the green cables in there.-
So here is what I have considered, Please let me know your thoughts on each of these-
1. Jantzen = Constructed of 2 conductors, 1 x red and 1 x black, AWG 17.
The cabling in my Mirage M1's is 12 gauge zip cord, that has oxidized and turned green at the terminations. Problem is I don't have a huge amount of cash to spend on new cabling, as I've spent most my money on replacing the existing caps in the crossover, with Jantzen superior and Standard Z caps (theres like 20 caps in each crossover). I need close to 50 feet for the two speakers and I only have 75-120 to spend on the cabling, this is a shoe string situation. I can't stand the idea of leaving the green cables in there.-
So here is what I have considered, Please let me know your thoughts on each of these-
1. Jantzen = Constructed of 2 conductors, 1 x red and 1 x black, AWG 17.
The Copper is oxygen free 99.9999% pure, solid core. Both conductors are individually polyethylene coated and padded out with stranded isolating fibres the wrapped in polyester tape and further encased in blue termoplastic casing.
My concern with the Jantzen is the size, its only 17 awg, My experience has been the Mirages are power hungry speakers and like big cables. I have big Tara Lab temporal continuum cables running them. Even the zip cord in side them is 12 awg, going 17 AWG makes me nervous. Any comments on this is appreciated.
2. Audioquest type 2, type 4, or G2, X2, Q2
Not sure if any of these are worth their cost. Wondering how much better the type 4 is than the type 2 or how much better the type 2 is over the G2, X2 or Q2. audioquest.com/flat_series_bulk_spools/q2
3. Belden 9497- Dont know much about this cable, I have heard other people have had good results but not sure seems like the size isnt all that I would like.
4. Canare 4s11, again dont know much about these cables but I've heard a lot of good things about them for their price.
5. Ive looked at the Duelund, but they appear to be only sold in single strands, and the cost for the amount required.
6. Curious about Vandenhul (VDH) cables, I am interested in the Snowline and the Skyline, However I haven't been able to find anything on these cables. vandenhul.com/products/cables/speaker-cables
What I want to know is
1. Has anyone had experience with these cables, whats your thoughts on them being used as internal cabling for a pair of Mirage M1's?
2. Is 17 Awg on the Jantzen cables big enough to effectively drive the 8 inch bass drivers on the M1's?
3. Has anyone used the the Vandenhul cables that use carbon, whats your thoughts on their overall presentation, are they neutral, detailed, dull, bright, etc?
4. Is all the hype about using solid conductors over stranded true-?
As always thanks to all who give their two cents-
My system overall,
Proceed Amp3 (eventually I will bi amp with a second one)
Proceed AVP-S
Mirage M1
Tara Labs temporal continuum Speaker cables
Audioquest Diamond interconnects
Musical Fidelity Vdac w/ J-RIVER (coming soon)
Showing 12 responses by timlub
Just read through the post, you can use any wire that you'd like on the interior of a speaker... I do recommend that you know its sound characteristics, I came very close to using the Belden 9497 that idahifi mentioned for the top end and using the 5000U that I use on the bottom... the 9497 is a very smooth and open wire, the 5000U is stiff, but accurate... I have stripped down a few reputable cables and used them.. there is nothing wrong with say a type 4 as mentioned above and using it in your internal wiring. If you use tubes, you may stay very aware of capacitance that goes into different cable designs, they can change the performance of your speaker. I am really only thinking of a set of cables that I made with cat 5e, they sounded decent, but had very high capacitance, if your speaker had a fair amount of inductance and you had enough wire in it, it could effect the phase angles. |
Hi @sfall I am using the Belden for interior wiring only... input to crossovers and crossovers to drivers. I have it in 3 sets of speakers. My current gear is a Coda CL preamp, an exquisitely Modified Sumo Nine power amp or abletec mono Class D amps or a Coda Unison 3.1 integrated.... My speaker cables are hand made prototypes from my old days at Marcof Electronic, a double wound 8 gauge litz and I also throw in some Audioquest... forgot the models, mid line from 10 years ago, also litz.. I've got more cables, but those are what I use most. I've got several interconnects, from the same marcof cables, to several hand made... I also use balance fairly often, I've got some audioquest sky and some hand made litz balanced also. Hand made dac, 3 tables, yada, yada, yada. So, I like the belden quite a bit, but I haven't put it in my system. Tim |
@idahifi My audioquest speaker cables are Midnight +.... I also have my marcof cables an old set of straight wire and a set that slips my mind, but a highly reviewed inexpensive 12 gauge. They audioquest are a very nice cable... I've only used the 5000 UE on internal wiring. I had always used a ofc 12 guage multi stranded on the inside of speakers... The 5000UE gives a slight improvement from Lower treble down without any harm to the top end. the 9497 that you mentioned will do a great job from upper bass regions to the treble, its laid back, yet detailed, but beware, the 9497 is highly counterfeited.... The Belden cables are a huge bang for the buck. I saw the Supra 15 ga mentioned above.... The Belden 9497 is a very similar design, it is a 16 gauge that is individually tinned. That cable has a great reputation. The 5000UE is a 12 gauge that uses a few solid core twisted cables, it is non litz and is Blue Jean cables Go to cable. When on a budget, these 2 should be on anyone's short list... shoot, even not on a budget, they are both solid performers that won't embarrass you. |
Just looked up the Supra, Madisound sells it... several wire gauge sizes, from 15 to 12 gauge....$1.04 to about $4 a foot. I have heard good things about this cable for years, but haven't tried it... For internal cabling, I would go for the Belden, sooo much bang for the buck, but if you lean toward the Belden 9497 for long runs of speaker cable, the 12 or 13 gauge Supra is a very good alternative. The Supra and Belden 9497 cables should all be more laid back sounding than the Belden 5000UE. It is a stage forward, up front cable, it never gets aggressive and its detailed... 2 different flavors. Plenty reviews out there on the Supra and Belden 9497. I hope this helps, good, luck. Tim |
Well really, I just didn't want to spend the money on both and I saw so many looks for the 9497 and didn't want to buy a large bulk. I found this link on ebay, he still has some. Remember, this is a stiff cable... The 9497 is an enchanting cable to listen to, but not everyone likes that laid back pretty type sound. The 5000UE is a smooth, more dynamic cable. If I could have found small qty of 9497 that I trusted, I would have used it on the mid or tweeter or both. But, I've been happy building with this Belden. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BELDEN-5000UE-12AWG-2COND-SPEAKER-CABLE-100-/151699645299?hash=item235200e37... |
grannyring, you are absolutely correct... just as skin effect changes makes changes in solid core vs stranded wire, insulation resistance changes how signal transfers also... The old Marcof Speaker cables that I referenced earlier were individual litz that used cotton insulation each strand was covered... The problem is soldering, we had to use solder pots to make cables with the cotton insulated litz. I'm not arguing that the Duelund could be better, just saying that the sound, vs cost/value of these other cables are tremendous. When you have a budget of $100 and you'd like to have 16 to 12 gauge wiring, the Dueland breaks the bank. |
The 9497 is a very musical cable, I'd compare it to the WE16ga that grannyring mentioned. I've used he WE16ga, very nice wire. On the 5000UE, By dynamic, I mean, slightly better bass and faster transients. I've not played with the Duelund.... I chose the 5000 for cost vs performance.... Its an honest cable and its cheap. The individual strand gauge is high, it reminds me of the better Audioquest solid core Litz cables, but it isn't litz. The good news is that all the cables that you are looking at will perform well.... Only you can decide.... I had a link saved with very nice lynk resistors 10 pc's of the values of your choice for only $30+ dollars... these are good resistors, they are non inductive and compare with mills. If I can find the link again, I'll post it. |
Idahifi I would not stress over the resistors like you would the caps.... Once you get to a very good resistor, you will get good results... I've used mundorf, lynk, mills and Vishay/dale all with good results... As grannyring said, the Mills are very good and they are also my go to resistor, but the better grade resistors just don't have the dramatic differences that caps do... You have picked excellent caps.... I've looked at M1 crossovers in the past, they really are not bad stock, get rid of and replace the electrolytics with a decent MKP, put those Jantzen's in key areas, replace the resisters with a good non inductive, re wire and you will have a wonderful speaker. |
idahifi, I don't want to confuse you with what is said between grannyring and myself. Neither of us are steering you wrong.... He is looking strictly at the purist DIY point of view.... I am looking at cost vs performance... I just don't want it to sound like there is any type of argument. Bill, I've read your post for the past several years and always consider you giving practical and sound advice. |
one last response @idahifi then I believe that I have given you all the advice that I have without a further question... I said all of your wire choices would perform well, I re read your post and saw that you were consider snowline... I have used that also, I found it thin on top and not very good in dynamics, so I stand corrected on my earlier comment. |
@idahifi my experience is that wire will start coming to its own at around 100 hours, hard break in can take 400 hours. As far as 9497 on mid & tweeter & the 5000UE on the woofer or all 5000UE??? I've payed with the 9497, it is smooth and detailed... I called it laid back, but trying to come up with a better term, lets call it recessed... meaning just a bit less output in the mid through the upper scale, still good detail, just not as forward sounding.... The 5000UE is really a neutral cable and is a bit faster than the 9497.... not sure that I can describe it better. for @fjn04 I used the 5000UE when I rebuilt a pair of Altec A7's... I removed the pots and put fixed pads in them.... These sounded very nice indeed. If you go Duelund, I would recommend that you stay with a 16gauge if possible. |