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Interesting experience with two very different speaker designs

I wanted to relay my experience with two different sets of speakers in hopes that it might prove interesting and/or help some folks.

My current speakers are Tekton Electron SE with a Pass XA30.5 and a MicroZOTL2 Preamp.  I was absolutely loving the sound but I started getting into the DIY open baffle thing.  I started with a very simple JE labs design with a single driver and after a few prototypes, I ended up with a 2-way using an Emminence Alpha 15 and a Tang Band W8 2145.

After breaking the DIY speakers in a bit, I was really blown away.  The soundstage was huge and very 3D.  The bass was big and warm but still pretty fast and articulate.  Also, the speed of the speakers was very apparent.  I loved them especially on big orchestral works where the soundstage really comes to life.

I lived with them for about 4 months and then I put the Electrons back.  Very interesting.  Timbrally, the Electrons were just better.  The OBs upper midrange sounded kind of flat and beamy in comparison.  The bass on the Electrons, though not as extended, was better controlled.  In some ways I found the OBs to be more transparent in that they really pointed out the flaws in some recordings.  Well recorded stuff sounded amazing but they gave no love to mediocre recordings.  The Electrons just make everything sound good. Much more forgiving.  

Going from the OBs to the Electrons, I lost some of that soundstage magic.  The Electrons, though they have some depth, lack that completely open 3D thing that the OBs were giving me.  However, from top to bottom, they just sound right.  Instruments sound like how they are supposed to sound.  That all-important midrange really shines.

Though I like both these speakers, I'm going to stick with the Tektons.  However, if what you value is speed, transparency and soundstage over timbre, I think open baffle is a good way to go.  I'll say this with the caveat that I'm not a speaker designer and there may be OB speakers out there that really get the timbre thing right too.  I'd love to hear some!
adam8179

Showing 8 responses by pfiche

pfiche
8 posts
 
@ adam8179
FYI on the TB W8 check out Bache Audio

pfiche
8 posts
 
I have been playing with an O.B. design with The Alpha 15 and TB W-8 for awhile. I agree it is fast, quick impact, great drums, acoustic guitar and warm vocals. Fun to listen to, with good recordings sounding great and so-so and some old recordings, are not enjoyable.

Yes, can be dry and lack that twinkle and sheen. Tried to stay full range without x-over but that was not going to work even with EQ. I tried severaldifferent tweeters in multiple positions and various x-over points but nothing was working. I finally worked in a B.G. Neo 3 open baffle  planer tweeter and it worked pretty dang good. Fast, more open on top end but lost a little warmth.  All in all blended quiet well and quiet livable.

Still in search for that little extra, I worked in the Dayton Audio ES104AMT  tweeter and it added some magic on the top end, happy for now, most enjoyable. More open, larger stage and great image. These will last for a little while.

Notes:
O.B design does not waste rear energy, it helps cancel at 90 degrees to reduce sidewall  reflections that can smear the signal reducing  image. Wasted energy is inside closed box speakers, companies spend a lot of money to nullify that energy, and some can still leak back out through the cone material.

18' x 13'  room, varied height ceiling, speakers set at 29% off front wall and 29% off L&R wall, ear height, tilted in aimed at L&R shoulders. Seating centered and about 7' from speakers.
Use high quality x-over components, and dampening material on larger inside surfaces.
Finished  off 4 dual V.C. 10" isobaric subs, 2 in front and 2 in back of room out of phase for very bottom end.
pfiche
8 posts
 
Today's DIY speaker builder has so much more knowledge available  in designing his/her  DIY speaker system than your granddaddy or your grandmother did. So many calculators, and other software available that with a little desire to enjoy the road to speaker building success,  "Home Made" has improved so much, with money going into better components that many of the name brands will take short cuts in manufacturing for profitability. " Years of research and experience" in marketing is a major component for brand names.
There are both gooder and better in both brand and DYI speakers. Many brands are like bourbon marketing, give them a great story to sell your product and  you  will get different opinions about the  results, but you got the sale.  Taste buds are like ears, both connected to the brain to decipher your personal experience.
Want to learn more  insight about brand speakers? Danny at GR Research (hybrid commercial/DIY speakers) explains a lot in his testing and making suggestions on improving brand speakers. Master knowledge guru has many You Tube education videos.

Coloring with a broad brush can sometimes smear paint!






pfiche
8 posts
 
@ adam8179Tried the face up to ceiling tweeter technique. It added a little improvement but not enough to get around the TB W8 upper end issues. Although adding on the x-over and tweeter gives that little something extra, you do loose some signature of the W8.
I  have non typical diffusors made from random collected junk, limits my walkway.
pfiche
8 posts
 
I do not disagree with the evolving better performance with R&D  by   manufacturers, thats dedication and good business. But yes I'm silly!   I did not say GR Research was a typical DIY er. (hybrid commercial/DIY speakers) in that he offers complete kits and speaker parts to the DIYers and a whole lot of knowledge about  speaker and x-over design. And yes, that is what Danny does, is offers sonic improvements to commercial company's that have dedicated R&D year after year yet cut corners for extra profits. As you probably know, the little things can make a sonic improvements.  Non typical business plan. Thanks Danny!

Commercial speakers are sorta like Ping Putters, they are so great that they have made over 250 different models of
putters to prove that they are the GOAT putter maker.  R&D has paid off (in marketing). And some speaker company's have so many variations, you might wonder what their basic sonic goal is , other than hitting all price points, not to say they are bad, but?

And finally, I'm sorry that you consider all  DIYers speaker projects inferior  to the commercial marketing speakers. Obviously you have heard most  DIY speakers to make your conclusions Can you say JBL 100's with cheap exotic 2 capacitor x-over or the last of the  once great company Thiel. Don't forget how mixed reviews B&W  with all there R&D over many years, many like and many don't so they better than DIY.

My point is the whether it is a DIY'er or a commercial speaker label dosen't  mean it can be better or worst, most fall in between. And nothing is better than the pride of learning, discovery, educating yourself in building your system. For many it is the "hunt" that matters.
And a blind hog can find a nut now and then.

Everybody has there happy color! Enjoy your color!
pfiche
8 posts
 
@arafiq....You are so right about R&D in most of the better manufacturers. I didn't mean to come on so strong about "ploy" deal, just my point that there are a lot of highly educated and  skilled DIYers that can design and build a very competitive product. Peace and happiness!
@adam8179, Keep enjoying your Tektons, but don't give up on your "garage speakers", keep the knowledge coming and have fun discovering. Results are a goal but the journey can be the most rewarding. DIY  is a great hobby, enjoy!

Don't worry about the woodwork, make it solid and dead, paint them black and when the lights are out, nobody else will know.
pfiche
8 posts
 
@asvjerryOops link = "404", dazed and confused!
pfiche
8 posts
 
Outliers , stay strong, bombs away,  didn't sink your ship, Sad that alternate thoughts with no relavince  want to influence your review. Shallow people?Arafiq, thanks for being open minded about what is possible.. 
  
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