Interconnect Inductance vs. Capacitance


How do the inductance and capacitance of ICs impact the sound? I have seen some ICs that have low inductance but high capacitance. On the other hand, some ICs have high inductance but low capacitance. One manufacturer even claims that his higher models have higher capacitance.

So can someone explain to me how they impact the sound?
vett93

Showing 4 responses by ric982

Just out of curiousity, do you think that anyone selling cables has IC designs that would exhibit enough capacitance to grossly affect high end frequency response? Isn't this more an issue for the designer than the consumer?
For a twisted pair design, the capacitance and the inductance are a function of the distance between the conductors relative to their diameters and are somewhat inversely related. The closer the conductors the less inductance and the more capacitance. The further apart, the more inductance and the less capacitance. For instance, a lot of ICs might have a pair of conductors that helix around a core that keeps them at some distance in order to achieve a certain design point (this is just twisted pair from a design point). Similarily, the thickness of the insulation itself can keep the conductors separated at some distance in a twisted pair that does not have a 'core'. The capacitance is also related to the type of dielectric used (or more specifically, the effective relative permitivity of the dielectric that the conductors experience). There are other cable geometries that are used that will tend to push the impedances one way or another. In general, all of the impedances (resistance, capacitance, inductance) scale linearly with the length of cable so shorter is better if you want to minimize impedances.

It's probably easiest to try to get the vendor's specs on what impedance a given cable exhibits - if they've bothered to measure them. Measuring inductance and capacitance typically requires a pretty good (expensive) piece of equipment. Low capacitance and low inductance are both desirable, but since you usually hurt one to help the other, going two far in either direction tends to be a mistake. However, I agree with Almarg that capacitance is a bigger factor for ICs while inductance (and resistance) is generally a bigger factor for speaker cables due to the differences in the amount of current involved between the two (e.g. harder for a low current system to charge a capacitance while harder for a high current system to overcome inductance).

Other things that are reputed to affect the "sound" of cabling are the purity of the conductor (e.g. OFC (99.99%), UPOCC (99.9999%), solid conductors supposedly better than stranded conductors, the type of conductor (copper, silver, silver coated copper), effective cross section of total conductors (more cross section, less DC resistance), diameter of individual insulated conductors (smaller gauge wires show less variation in internal impedance with frequency (due to skin effect, DC travels through the entire conductor - higher frequencies move to the outsides of the conductor - so some vendors will say you should have, for instance, a number of smaller gauge conductors (say 8 x 21 AWG) rather than one large conductor (say 1 x 12 AWG) for speaker cables), surface of conductor (smooth/polished is better), the type of dielectric (actual physics here that affects capacitance), the geometry of the conductors within the cable , the mechanical stability of the conductors (e.g. damping and isolation), how well the connector or wire makes contact with the terminals (e.g. type of plating on connectors, type of metals in connectors, surfaces of connectors, contact points of connectors, contact enhancement treatments, oxidation on connectors, vibrations in connectors, etc.), shielding from RFI and EM radiation (more important on ICs due to low voltages and currents and subsequent application of the noise through your amplifier), and various types of conditionings like cryogenic freezing. However, there is great controversy over which, if any, of these types of things has an impact on the 'sound' or whether "great" sound can be achieved with a 'budget' cable.

To be honest, most cables spec's are not going to be a problem from an electrical standpoint - unless perhaps your amp is sensitive to highly capacitive loads (most are designed not to be) or you are running at lot more than say 8 feet of cable. And most of the cable specs are not going to tell you something that will indicate whether it sounds better or worst to you in your system. Even if the cable were to have characteristics that introduce frequency distortion - perhaps you like attenuated highs on your ICs because your gear is bright for instance.

However, most audio folks say that they hear differences between different cable's sounds. Most differences in cables' sounds are 'subtle' and perhaps a matter of taste. To me, it seems to be a bit of a hit or miss operation if you are just looking at 'spec's. It's not clear what measured parameters are important to the "sound" and there's a lot of marketing hype about various other characteristics that are hard to substantiate. If you can actually audition some cables and you like one better than the other - and you feel that the difference in cost justifies the improvement, then go for it - though this could lead to a potentially un-ending cable upgrade path if you have unlimited time and resources. The next best source is likely to be discussion forums of other folks experiences with various cables on various types of equipment (particularly the ones where they decided to go from cable x to cable y).

Keep in mind that some cables reportedly require some period of time to settle into how they will ultimately sound. If you believe in breakin (another controversy), the periods typically indicated for this transition tend to be on the order of a few days to a week or two of active (24x7) use, depending on a number of factors - though most likely related to the type of dielectric. If you are trying to compare two cables - that is also a bit of a dicey operation. Try to keep all other variables constant. Same gear, same room, same speaker placement, same relative placement of listener to the speakers. It may take you some time of listening before you decide that a particular sound is to your liking - what might sound like more definition at first might end up seeming harsh after a while. So it may take more than just flipping back and forth a few times to get to a lasting impression of whether you really like one sound versus the other. Also keep in mind that your listening room may have a much larger effect on the sound of your system than the cables so if that's out of control - perhaps you're better off focusing on that first before you start trying to 'tune in' your cables. Another rule of thumb quoted would be to not spend more than about 10-20% of your system's cost on cabling. If you are spending more that on cabling, you might be better off buying better gear than better cables.

Not much help here, but a lot of things to consider perhaps. From what I'm seeing, seems like perhaps a bit too focused on the capacitance vs inductance issue as the title suggests. Try measuring more with your ears than your impedance meter. However, if you are interested in some more of the technical side, this might be helpful - http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/Analog.html

"... and I need 10 ft of ICs between preamp and power amp."

So I gotta ask - why do you need 10' between pre-amp and power amp. I think you'd be better off with 2' between your pre-amp and your amp and 10' between your amp and your speakers. Do you have power amps integrated in your speakers?

Agree that if you are stringing your own cable - you gotta think a bit about impedances - resistance, inductance, and capacitance. And the requirements are different on the IC side than the speaker side.

Almarg/Redkiwi - this is a fun thread. I've been reading through Ramos "Fields and Waves in Communication Electronics" - and while it's a great source and touches on basic cable configs (co-ax/parallel) and covers electro-statics, Maxwell equations, impedance calculations, skin effects, and group delays, etc. at low and high frequency - it still doesn't quite make the jump to impacts on sonics. I'm looking for some good references on acoustics (room/speakers/etc.) as well as something that might deal with some more complicated cable geometries like for instance Litz twisted pairs, Litz helicals, or Litz counter helicals. CHELA?. Any info, references. (PS - I only have one BSEE degree - perhaps the emphasis is on the BS end).

Anyone playing with mag wire for ICs or speaker?

BTW - I've got some Neotech 3m NES-3001's and a 1.2m NEDV-1001 on order ( http://www.neotechcable.com/product.htm ). Unheard and unseen - but I'm a little psyc'ed (that in itself will make the cables sound better I'm told!). Will wait to hear before I consider the NEI-1001. System is - Oppo 983H -> CI Audio VDA-2 DAC -> Jeff Rowland Concerto Integrated (Note: No external distance between pre-amp and amp per comment above) -> Dali Euphonia MS-5. I was trying to avoid the cable game and jump from my $0.33/ft Home Depot 12 AWG OFC tri-wire to wire nut to dual 12 AWG to amp speaker cable - all with RS spades(heh - I needed something to hook up to the MS-5s in a pinch) to the end game - something that I'll not be thinking of replacing, if for monetary reasons only. Any thoughts? This is a leap of faith and perhaps a rather expensive gamble.

Gotta share this too - my speakers are tri-wired and the NES-3001 I'm getting is bi-wired (11 AWGx2x2 at speaker end). So I need jumpers for one of the poles. Lots of thoughts on what to do there - I'm leaning toward putting the bi-wire on the Treble/Mid and jumping to the low - better coherency by word of mouth, but nothing to support it given audio frequencies and lumped impedances. You might or might not believe what I'm putting ($) into these DIY jumpers - decided on Furutech FP-218R Spades cold krimped to 18AWG Neotech cryro treaded wire with 10 strands to get 8AWG effective. Why? Because you can for one? And Rhodium sure does look like silver even if it's not. But second, thinking that the NES-3001 is 8 AWG (about 17AWGx8 x2) and if I decide bi-wire is myth - I'm running an 8 AWG cable and just will need two more jumpers for the tri-wire.

Tell me I'm nuts.
Greg,
I'm inclined to agree with you and retract my speculation. Certainly that's how a large concert venue would be set up. If I had some monoblocks instead of an integrated amp - I'd probably have be thinking more along this line. Minimizing cable lengths within the limits of equipment placement is always a good thing, but given you have a choice between length of ICs and length of speaker cables, putting the amps at the speakers would probably be the best choice for sound quality.