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Integrating a new turntable into existing system and having sound quality problems...

Hi, I just a purchased a brand new turntable a Project Carbon debut and a Project Phono Box and integrated them into my existing stereo system and have run into some sound quality issues.


Problems

1. The first album I played was a brand new Diana Krall Wallflower album.  Her voice seemed very thin and crackly (not the traditional cracks and pops of vinyl) which was surprising given her voice is so smooth when listening to her CDs.  I brought the album back to the store and they played it on their cheap system and it seemed to work fine.

2. None of the other albums had the same level of thinness and tininess as the diana Krall album but they all seemed light on bass compared to listening to CDs on the same system.

3. One odd thing i noticed on the Diana Krall album was that my tonearm kept wanting to come off the album at the start rather than grab a groove and work inwards.  not a problem i have experienced with the other 6 albums I have been playing.


My Setup

Rotel RCD 991 as a transport

Bryston Dac

Mastersound compact 845 integrated - Single end triode with 2x30 watts

Pioneer speakers S-03EX - their TAD  trickle down speakers - not the usual Pioneer speaker


I added the Project Carbon Debut, plugged into the Project Phono Box, plugged into the AUX input of the integrated amp (therefore I am using both the pre and power functions of the integrated)


Any help on troubleshooting the poor sound quality issue would be appreciated.  I wasn't sure if it was related to

1. vinyl sounds like crap compared to CD (not likely) but it does in the Diana krall situation

2. is it just the wrong synergy of the system?

3. is the turntable not good enough to match the quality of the amp and speakers?

4. are there adjustments that I should be making to the tonearm to have more down ward force to pick up more bass???

5.do I need a higher quality phono stage?

6. should I get a higher quality phono pre amp and skip the pre amp stage in my integrated - although I assume given the build quality of my integrated, I would need to pay a pretty penny to get a comparable or better stand alone phono preamp.


Any input would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks

vwman111
minkwelder
256 posts
 
Do you have the CD player plugged into the CD or Direct input? If it’s running into the CD input and sounds OK, try temporarily plugging the phono preamp into the CD input. If it still sounds bad, you’ve eliminated the amp as the source of the problem.

Then try reversing the interconnects at the amp (L to R and R to L) and see if the noise moves to the right channel. If it does, first suspect a bad interconnect or bad connection in the side making noise. It could be anywhere along the signal path all the way back to the cartridge.

Do you know for certain that the Phono Box is OK?

You will find the problem if you logically run through a process of elimination.

EDIT: After posting, I decided to look for some customer reviews on the Debut Carbon. That's when I discovered that there are numerous complaints about noise and hum, particularly LEFT channel problems! It appears that you may be experiencing a problem that is due to a defect in the manufacture of the table.
stringreen's avatar
stringreen
6,470 posts
 
vwman....do you live in Arizona?
vwman111 OP
4 posts
 

Thank you again for all of your suggestions.


Stingreen - Unfortunately I don't live close to Arizona, I'm up in Vancouver.


Minkwelder - I will start to review some of those threads on the Debut Carbon buzzing.


Here is a list of what I have done to date:


1. hum comes from speakers even when power to turntable is turned off (but still plugged in)

2. I removed the grounding cable and it make a much louder hum.

3. I reconnected the ground cable to my power conditioner instead of phono amp.

4. I tried different interconnects

5. I switched the L and R and the hum started to come through the R speaker instead of the L

6. I switched the input of the TT to CD on my integrated amp and the hum was still there

7. I fiddled around with the interconnects to the TT and it seemed very sensitive causing additional humming or reducing humming if I kept my finger on it with a certain amount of pressure.


Clarification - when I say hum, it is a combination of hum and crackle that comes through the left speaker even when TT is not playing or turned on.  It really expresses itself with certain vocal ranges (i.e. Diana Krall and Michael Buble duet), where it sounds awful.  On some other jazz albums without vocals the effect isn't as noticeable.


I guess I am off to the dealer next week.  Any suggestions on whether I should be sticking with a new Debut Carbon of if there is something else I should get (including an upgrade) for up to $1k.  The Rega RP3 with Elyse are on sale for less than $1k in Canada.


Thanks

lowrider57's avatar
lowrider57
5,417 posts
 
Clearly it’s defective. There is the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC model which has a better power supply and speed control.

The Rega RP3 is a very reliable budget TT with decent build quality and an excellent tonearm. I’ve auditioned it, my only problem was with the Elys 2 cart. It has good dynamics, but the highs can be sibilant. The proper phonostage setting can help compensate for this.

IMO, Rega is the better table, audition it.

swampwalker's avatar
swampwalker
5,138 posts
 
Seems to me that you've isolated the problem to the left channel and w your #7 above, it's most likely a bad connection, but it could be an interconnect or a jack.  When you say you switched interconnects (#5) are you talking about those between the phono box and the TT or between the phono box and the Mastersound, or both?  In #7, were you applying pressure to the phono box input or output connections?  If the Carbon has captive ICs, you may want to check that the interface between the cart leads and the IC is secure, but only if it's easily accessible.  Regardless of the outcome of that test, I'd bring it back and let the dealer deal with it (pun intended).  It's defective out of the box, you've done a considerable amount of trouble shooting and that's what you are paying him a mark-up for. 
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