Integrated for B&W PM1


Here's my story, and it's a head-scratcher, but it is what it is, and I could use some input...

In my 12x10 listening room I have a pair of B&W PM1 connected to a Marantz PM8400. I bought them at the same time, they sounded good, that was that.

Our living room 5.1 system centers around a pair of Mirage OM-9 bipole towers running off a 2003 Onkyo TSX-R701 100wpc receiver. The living room setup is just for movies and casual loud music while cleaning the house, and it sounds good and the Onkyo and Mirage work well together (much better than the SF Grand Pianos which were a lousy match with the Onkyo, as you'd expect). The OM-9 aren't speakers you use for critical listening, in my opinion, because of the bi-pole sound, but I'm a big fan of the way they can fill a room as if you have much larger speakers, a very cool enveloping effect.

So this past weekend my gal asked me what the PM1 would sound like compared to the big Mirage towers, so I dragged them into the living room for the first time just for kicks. And we were shocked by what we heard - the PM1 sounded worlds better than they ever sounded on the Marantz. It was like they opened up and just completely filled the room with this amazing 3-dimensional wall of sound; it was like a wall of vocals, in front of a wall of percussion, in front of a wall of strings. Even the bass performance was incredible - not quite the equal of the OM-9 (which have multiple forward and rear firing bass drivers), but it was much closer than I expected. And of course, the mids and highs of the PM1 were much better than the OM-9, which was not a surprise. I actually got goosebumps, it sounded so good.

To make sure we weren't just hearing the difference in room acoustics, we dragged the Marantz into the living room and did an A-B comparison, and we weren't imagining the difference. The Marantz just could not keep up, and it was like someone threw a towel over the speakers.

Hence, the head-scratcher. I just can't understand a 10-year old $500 Onkyo making $2800 PM1s sound better than a $1000 Marantz. There is an output difference, 100wpc to 70wpc on the Marantz, but can that be the reason for such a dramatic performance difference (volume levels being equal)?

And now, where do I go from here? I haven't even hooked the Marantz back up now that I've heard what the PM1s CAN sound like. Do I hit eBay and buy a used $150 Onkyo? Or should I expect that if I go back to a nice integrated, I'm correct in assuming that I should be able to improve on the Onkyo? I've been reading up on the W4S STI-500, or maybe the Bel Cando S300iu, something with a lot of power. Or even a Rogue Sphinx. I don't mind dropping $1500 on something, but if it ends up sounding no better than a 10-year old Onkyo I'm going to bang my head on the wall!
128x128bcgator
BCgator, good luck with the AR unit. The PM1's are a jewel in my opinion. Honestly, if I had no compromises to make I wish they were a little bit more revealing in their detail and a slightly bit less warm. However I have owned the 803S floorstanders (exceptional), the 805D monitors (disappointing), the Dynaudio C1 Sigs (very disappointing) as well as some others from KEF (mixed results but none great). All the above were paired with Bryston mono amps, B135 SST2 integrated as well as Classe and a Hegel H200.
I would have kept the Nautilus 803S floorstanders but they are monsters and I do not want to have to lug those beasts around when I move...so I set out for monitors. The PM1's sounded very good from the beginning. However the turning point came when I introduced the Hegel H200 into the mix. What an integrated!! (again a lifestyle decision to not lug boxes). The detail, and warmth this has brought to the PM1's was out of this world. The Hegel unit performed so well IMO that I upgraded the H200 to an H300 with an integrated DAC. The DAC is not a 192 dac through USB (can through SPDIF/Coax) but sounds better than my former W4S, Peachtree and Arcam (with mac mini,audirvana plus). The H300 also puts out 250 into 8 ohms. These PM1's need power. The only lacking element in my room was bass and ultimately added a B&W PV1 sub. This combination (with analog also with a Rega TT/Sumiko and Clearaudio phono preamp) is wonderful! I have spent thousands and tons of time seeking this performance. This <$14,000 system including cables is just what I wanted:
it is compact but with a big full sound that fills my 14x16 room...it is beautiful looking with the minimalist look of the Hegel design, and the progressively transitional, slightly modern design of the B&W speakers, stands (outstanding build quality...well worth the money!!) and sub.

Of course I cannot help myself and am now toying with the idea of testing the KEF LS50 monitors to determine if they may bring a bit more detail to the music.
Thanks Blackhawks6, I had not put the Hegel on my radar but will definitely do so and check it out.

I agree that the PM1 are warm, especially compared to the other B&W I've owned (704, 805, 805 Sig). Compared to my Proac D2, they're a little more laid back, not quite as lively on the top end. But that can also work in their favor as they make poor recordings much more listenable, and they can bail out certain female vocalists that can sound strident through forward or lively speakers. Patti Griffin is a great example - her voice can be just a little nasally to me, and through the wrong setup she's like nails on a chalkboard after 5 minutes. But through the PM1 she's listenable without fatigue. It's funny, some days I prefer the lively sound of the Proac D2, and some days the sound of the PM1 is like a warm bowl of tomato soup on a cold day :-)

And like you, I LOVE looking at them, just beautiful.
Now I am intrigued and will try and demo the Proac D2's. I read the review in Stereophile and they not only received a nice review but the speaker cabinet appears to be very well made and timeless looking. Thanks! t
Blackhawk wrote, "it is compact but with a big full sound that fills my 14x16 room."

Does your PM1 & sub do all music genres equally well? How does the vocals sound on that speaker?