Integrated amp for Thiel 3.7's


I am sort off picking up where Thieliste, Jafant and others left off in the discussion thread about what electronics to use drive the Thiels.  I was, and I suppose still am looking for a preamp to drive my pass labs 60.5 mono's, but in reading some of the posts I have also started considering simplifying my system and just going for a high end integrated.  Part of the reason I am thinking about going in this new direction is that we may be moving- and this might be the right time to scale down.

I am not sure yet, but I have started thinking about it. 
For preamplifiers I keep on toying with the idea of a PS audio BHK, Pass labs xp12, Simaudio 740p, or an Aesthetix Calypso Eclipse.  One of these would replace my Prima Luna Dialogue Premium- as I have mentioned before I think I can probably get better detail, definition, and depth a preamp with a higher quality volume control (vs the Prima Luna blue velvet).

But maybe a high end integrated might actually do the trick as well- I cannot afford one of the new Uber integrateds but maybe some high quality used ones might work.  I am budgeting under usd10k.  By selling my other equipment I should be able to get to my budget with a relatively small additional investment (usd1-3k ?).

So I have been looking at Luxman 509x, Nelson Pass Int 250, Vitus RI-100 or RI-101....Diablo 300 would be out of my reach even used but maybe the 120, and maybe an ASR (the exclusive 2 would be so many boxes that it would defeat the whole purpose of consolidating the system- so maybe the 1?).  On these last 2 I really have no idea about how much one gives up going with the lower models.

Ultimately my hope is that the list above will still get me further than where I am with my current set up.

Anyway, would be very interested in your thoughts as I look at this new angle for my system.
pgastone

Showing 7 responses by georgehifi

Btw, anybody have thoughts on the Nelson integrated (250)

Generally push/pull complimentary Mosfets aren’t too good at doubling wattage and supplying current down into that broad band of 2ohms, I stick with and look for BJT (bi-polar) amps. Maybe the Coda above?
Cheers George
How about the Coda CSiB integrated:
This should work nicely, even though they don’t give the 2ohm wattage figure, 20 x bi-polars per channel, if the power supplies up to it it should give it a higher wattage figure into 2ohms, than it does into 4ohms.

Cheers George
Hi @georgehifi : I have barely seen any amps mention the power rating at 2 Ohms.
Yes many Mosfets and Class-D can double from 8ohm to 4ohm, but **** themselves severely into 2ohms, and either can’t increase at all from the 4ohm figure or actually go backwards, or worse still, blow or shut down.
Oh and forget about tubes altogether trying to do this.

They typically say something like “... stable at 2 Ohms”
Yes that’s a bit of a smoke screen, as even a 30w 1980’s NAD 32020 integrated is stable into 2ohms, just means it won’t oscillate or blow up, doesn’t mean at all that it can drive a speaker that’s 2ohms.

Cheers George
I always check if power doubles, or is close, every time the impedance doubles.
"correction wattage close to doubles if impedance halves"
Yes and if they don’t mention it in the specs, usually it can’t do it.
Cheers George
pgastone OP


Don’t listen to those just saying get this or that, because "it’s stable into 2ohms".

There's more to it, there no use just saying an amp that stable at 2ohms will do, as a old 80’s NAD3020 Integrated is stable at 2ohms, and it’s got no chance of driving the Thiel 3.7’s.

Yes you need an amp that comfortable at 2ohms, but also one that can deliver big current right down to 2ohms and not sag.

And the way to tell is, one that can keep close to doubling it’s wattage from 8ohm to 4ohm then 4ohm to 2ohm. then you’ll have the ideal amp to get the best from these types of speakers.

Cheers George
pgastone OP

Like I said above, the amp for these needs current delivery down to 2ohms, I just posted up an integrated that would do, but it's too new for there to be any used ones. But it does have a dac and phono stge in it.
  https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/mark-levinson-integrated-powerhouse-with-all-the-bling

Cheers George 
pgastone

With this kind of load, especially around the low bass with the added -phase angle, to get the VERY BEST out of these magic speakers, if you have the funds and because they are 91db efficient you need an integrated like the Gryphon Diablo 120 or the 300 but that maybe too expensive that can handle 2ohm or sub 2ohm loads continuously, and be comfortable doing it.
The 300 can do this 
2 x 300W (8 ohms),
2 x 600W (4 ohms),
2 x 950W (2 ohms)

So the 120 should do half those figures which is still plenty for you. 

https://gryphon-audio.dk/produkt-kategori/integrated-amplifiers/
https://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/1208T37fig1.jpg
Cheers George