Innersound Speakers

i think a bigger problem with hybrid speakers is the discontinuity or lack of coherence between cone and ribbon or electrostatic panel. time and again, when i listened to several versions of the vmps, the eros, the kaya, kachina and now roger sanders latest opus, i was bothered by the lack of integration.

i am not bothered by listening off axis.

it is ludicrous to say that because i criticize the design of a hybrid electrostatic speaker, i have validated his design. it is also illogical.

i never said that a full range electrostatic speaker is superior to a hybrid. i only stated my preference.

roger sanders is a nice person, but he is not the only designer of electrostatic speakers.

i did not denigrate his knowledge as a speaker designer, but it seems unprofessional to call someone a liar.

anyway, this entire situation seems to be a tempest in a teacup. it really has nothing to do with you, trelja, and now the case is closed. i have no more to say. the event happened about two months ago. i'll move on and i suspect, you will too.

by the way, i touched that you are concerned about my speaker selection.

the defendant replies:

i walked into the room and requested an audition of a cd.

within 30 seconds i heard cymbal, kick drum , acoustic bass and electric guitar. i heard the difference between cone and panel. it doesn't take long. my mode of audition in general, even in my own system is short listening of familiar music.

i commented on what i heard and roger suggested that i listen to a cd of willie nelson. i listened and i again heard the lower register coming from the cone and some of the higher notes coming from the panel and i heard the difference between the two. to my ears , the integration was not seamless.

i am looking for a speaker now. what reason would i have to come into a room, if i assumed i would hear a difference, before i actually heard it ? i wouldn't have listened if i already decided that hybrids were of no interest to me.

trelja, would you be willing to make a wager, if i were blindfolded, to test my hearing, if you believe i didn't detect the difference between cone and panel ?

i then discussed with him my interest in a full range electrostatic speaker and specified that i don't listen loud, no more than 85 db and wanted to achieve bass reponse extending to the about 35 khz. he replied that he would have to double the width of the panel, double the height and include a dsp. we discussed the affect of including the dsp in the signal path upon the performance of the speaker and i expressed my concern that it would add distortion and he asserted that i wouldn't hear the dsp even though it was in the signal path. i was not convinced, nor did i want to take a chance for $10,000 to have him build it, without obviously listening to it.

trelja, you are partially correct and partially incorrect about the facts of the situation.

at issue is my ability to detect discontinuity in cone or pnale within less than one minute and/or needing more time to give the speaker a chance to play a variety of music, before making a judgment.

having heard many examples of hybrid speakers, i believe i am experienced enough to observe in a very short period of time.

i will also admit to a certain point of view having heard a variety of hybrids, including electrostatic tweeter and bass/midrange cone, heil tweeter and cone, ribbon and cone and planar magnetic and cone.

i am not prone to falsify what i hear. there is no reason for me to do this.

the panel on the innnersound speaker is fine. i enjoy listening to it. i would like to hear a full range version of it without having to pay for it in advance.

he trelja:

you are entitled to your opinion as to what occurred during my visit to the st tropez to listen to roger sanders latest creation.

we have disagreements as to what happened. however i question some of your hypotheses.

you have no evidence of any prejudice. i did not go into the room expecting someone to suggest the feasibility of building another speaker to satisfy my objectives. you have no way of knowing what is going on in my mind. however, in fairness to you, you said "believe". i strongly disagree with your beliefs. however, you are entitled to them.

by the way, why have you chosen to act as roger sander's defender/lawyer ? i'm sure he is speaking for himself.

my not accepting his proposal has nothing to do with knowledge--his or mine. i never claimed to have any knowledge. i just objected to paying for a speaker in the amount of $10,000, without auditioning it first.
by the way, i don't recall being asked about the amplifier i would be using to power a speaker. i would have provided that information. i own several tube amps. i aam aware of the capabilities of each. why would i refuse to answer such a quuestion ? it makes no sense?

either he did not answer the question, which is likely , or i answered it and you did not hear the answer.

i did not invalidate roger's creation. i said i can hear two drivers, cone and panel. i did not indicate any expertise at speaker building. you have misrepresented what i said and did not say.

i would not expect someone to build a speaker without paying for it, which is why i declined his proposal, because it wasn't a production speaker which i could audition prior to purchase.

the fact that i expressed a preference for a full range electrostatic speaker did not automatically imply that he he had to offer to build one. our conversation could have focused on his hybrid speaker. i did not ask him to build a speaker.

you also left out our brief discussion of the quad 57s.

by the way, it sounds like you are not convinced that i did not hear the difference between panel and cone. your allusions to dogs and fleas does not negate what i heard.

finally, martin logan will be producing a full range electrostatic speaker, then clx, later this year, and i am considering stacked quads unlimited quad 57s.

hi mrjstark:

when the axe meets the stone, the axe gets sharper, or , the stone facilitates the sharpening of the axe.

i just spoke to roger today. discussed a possible full range electrostatic speaker. different ears in different gears.

roger is indeed a gentlemen. ijust find listening to cones and panels a problem.

hi mrjstark:

i wasn't aware that you own martin logan speakers.

i am not foisting my preferences upon anyone. i respect all points of view. i realize that taste is what it is and it varies . put 3 audiophiles in a room and you may get 4 opinions

i am open minded in that i have no opinion until after i listen.

as to the bass response of stacked quad 57s, i expect to hear 40 hz at 85db. a lot will depend upon my room.

i am confident in my perceptions.