INNER GROOVE DISTORTION

Hi Joe

I did watch Peter Lederman and experimented with adding some anti-skating with some good results.

So did you try lowering the stylus in between the runout grooves. What happened?

When the tech from Overture Audio { who have been great } comes to swap out arms I won’t let him leave until I am completely satisfied. I have too large an investment in this not to have great sound from the entire record.

He is going to put on a few records .Can’t do more than that. Your hearing while he is there - will not be in the same state as when you are alone, with friends, family, relaxed and listening. Just saying I used to do this for friends.

You can give a man a fish....or you can teach him to fish. In millercarbon’s case it seems a beer will do it. 8^0

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when someone posts as they have on your thread.

I hear no inner groove issue ...although the beginning of the record always sounds better than the end

That is describing inner groove distortion. No one on your thread seems to want to discuss the Elephant in the room. The Record.

There is a lot more vinyl, bigger grooves, at the beginning of a record. The grooves are much smaller at the end. The beginning of the record should be, based on physics, always sounding better at the beginning. How resolving ones room is (and their hearing) will factor into if one can hear this.

Due to the above - , "anything" that is going to impede the stylus travel, be it tonearm setup, alignment, antiskate, condition of record - will be heard more readily at the end. Another challenge for the vinyl audiophiles.

The above - the Inner Record Grooves - is Analog’s answer to - Digital Compression.

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Because my pivot arm’s cartridge is angled in (cocked in, as Peter from Soundsmith likes to say) - toward the spindle. The more friction in the groove (increased VTF) results in needing more anti skate. For this reason Peter’s test involving the Inner Groove test only goes so far.

Classical music - due to the varying levels of modulation (loudness) - is the biggest challenge against groove distortion and applying anti skate. We all are just trying to bring the distortion level down to a level that is bearable for us. And this "level" differs for all of us. JMO

Happy Listening and Merry Christmas to everyone.

Almarg
Hopefully you will then be able to find an amount of twist that results in minimal or no deflection at all positions on the record.

@almarg

Hi Al - there are not multiple twisting increments permitted with the design. It’s more like .....are you going to do One twist or nothing.
To explain. If you look at the wire loop in the attached pic link. my former VPI JMW 12 tonearm.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/M2KjNpVbyxNCbbHM6

imo - Unless VPI has changed the materials used (wire and teflon coating type) in later wire loops.... then there is not a lot of twisting that can be done here. The wire loop is of a "construction" that provides for push back when "not" twisted. So anti-skate is there without any twisting. In addition to this, the springing action of the wiring provides for increased anti skate action as the loop is "closed" towards the end of the record.

I assume, when VPI added in an anti skate mechanism in later years, the amount of AS needed, would be below minimal, due to the anti skate action of the wiring itself.

From what I recall adding in even one twist of the wire for me - produced problems as other posters on this thread indicated. I also wonder how many of those taking shots at this tonearm / wiring technique - ever owned a VPI uni pivot tonearm ?

Cheers Chris

lewm - Because in some sense, none of the factors you list, maybe apart from dirt in the grooves, would be expected to impede stylus travel.

@lewm

"some sense" ??

ok here we go - hang on ....

In "some sense", when a record is cut, one spiraling, varying, groove gets created.

In "some sense" the best vinyl re-play design we can re-create, is to duplicate the record cutting process, but in play mode ,with a stylus that resembles the cutting stylus.

In "some sense" - we cannot eliminate the friction created by the play stylus against the groove walls as this is needed to start production of the signal. We do know that laser vinyl playing never took off.

So "some sense" therefore says...

Anything, and all things, that affect the travel through this groove in a way different from the way it was cut...... that creates more friction.... than the friction the stylus produces, if it was travelling the groove AS CUT........ will impede stylus travel.

In "some sense" this includes an improperly setup and or bad design linear tracker tonearm.

In "some sense" this includes the extra friction caused by a pivot tonearm’s behavior to push inside due to the cocked cartridge position.

Hey
I have talked to Peter at Soundsmith about uneven wear on carts that get sent to him for repair. This is real. Now imagine test driving a brand new car down a very narrow road, and the car had one bad design feature..... it constantly pulls to the right. 8^0

In "some sense" this includes the use of anti skate to fight off this inward tendency thus producing a constant tug of war. This impedes stylus travel.

Empirical observation based on ^^^^.

If you had ever heard a properly set up air bearing linear tracker play the inner grooves cleanly in your own space, then you would of heard this Pivot tonearm "tug of war".

In "some sense" there are times in this audio hobby, when it is not until you "remove" a problem to understand, it was there to begin with.

In "some sense " the record sounds better at the beginning than the end" (famous saying by any owner of a Pivot arm which includes me)

"some sense."