2. amps-preamps
  3. 181995-179554

Improvement over 2002 Denon AVR-3802 for 2 Channel Music System

I currently have a 2002 Denon AVR-3802 that I am using for a dedicated 2 channel audio system.  My room is a converted garage bay, about 15'x24' (with a bunch of guitars and amps and such in it - multi purpose room...)  I have Revel Performa3 M106 stand mounted speakers, and an SVS 3000 Micro sub.  I am streaming using Roon (Qobuz and Tidal as well as DSD "rips" of my SACD collection) into a Ropieee loaded Raspberry Pi 4 into a Geshelli Labs JNOG2 (with AK4493).  I have a Sony BDPS-5100 for playing CDs via coaxial out into the Geshelli (also used for ripping SACDs).  For vinyl. I am using a late '70s JVC QL-A7 with an AT VM540ML cartridge into a Schiit Mani2 pre.

Anyway, overall the sound is really good.  However, I am being tempted by the idea of separates, and what I can do to best improve my experience.  I am thinking middle-of-the-road for now.  No Mark Levinson or Mac (yet).  Candidates include the Parasound P6 pre with either the A21+ or the A23+ power amp, or maybe the Anthem MCA 255 Gen 2 (not going to go all the way to the Anthem STR).  Another extremely interesting idea is the Benchmark AHB2.  For budgetary purposes, I would likely buy an amp first, and continue to use the Denon as a pre for the time being.  I use it in Direct mode, WITH bass management (speakers set to small - sub set to on). Eventually, I would want a pre with Bass Management as well.  Not super interested in a pre with a built-in DAC, but most seem to have this (Including the P6).  After that, a better phono stage...

My quandary is, what will I really gain here with a new amp?  The amp section of the Denon is solid- does not seem to be lacking much other than lower volume push / punch / control and (of course) definition at more extreme SPLs.  I feel like the A21+ would be a significant improvement, but not sure I want to drop $3k on an amp when the current situation is pretty good. 

I guess I am wondering if a lower wattage (closer to that of the Denon's 105 WPC), lower $ amp (like the A23+ for example) will get me any significant (audible) benefits over what I have, or do I need to bite the bullet and go with the A21+ or Anthem.  I know that eventually the Denon will give up the ghost, but I bought it brand new in 2002 and it has never failed me yet.  I just want to get ahead of its inevitable demise.  I know it seems like I am answering my own questions here, but I think I need some affirmation from like-minded folks. 

I'd hate to drop a few grand and be nonplussed with the results.  Not a unique situation, I know. 

Talk me into it.

jazzman999
soix
9,456 posts
 

My quandary is, what will I really gain here with a new amp?

That’ll get you halfway there, but as long as the Denon’s preamp section is in the signal chain it’ll be a significant bottleneck to much better sound.  Not sure why you’re against an integrated as they can be a great value vs. separates, and for $3k you could get a very nice integrated and just be done rather than then having to search out a preamp that synergizes well with an amp.  Just a thought, and best of luck. 

kota1
2,706 posts
 

Black Ice Audio has a product that is designed for rooms like yours that can't be treated in the conventional way. I would start by checking out their preamp:

 

jazzman999 OP
6 posts
 

Thanks, to all.  The Black Ice stuff looks nice.  I am not big on processing the signal though.  I can only think of aural enhancers like the 'ol BBE Sonic Maximizer...  Not my bag. I realize that this is an antiquated example, but every time I have heard something that purports to fix audio issues using an algorithm or some sort of processing, I am skeptical.  

My Denon, being a 2002 has a MUCH better power section than the AV receivers of today (IMHO).  Anecdotally, I know this as I replaced the 3802 with a 2018 AVR-3500h in my Home Theater system.  The 3500 is ok, but does not have the "authority" that the 3802 had.  Especially with 2 channel content.  TI do know that maybe a more fair comparison would be a 6500 series or something.  But the 3500 was at a similar relative price point to what I paid for the 3802.  That said, the 3802 is getting old.  Also, to many of your points, the Pre in it was never "audiophile grade", but built mostly for AV use.  Totally get that I need to replace it.

To answer some of the above questions, I like separates for serviceability and signal isolation.  I like the idea of "older school" design in most of the components as I do NOT want to be upgrading an entire integrated amp each time technology changes.  I'd much rather have an outboard DAC and Streamer that I can swap out at much less expense and keep the pre and power sections.  Another reason - Budget / Cashflow.  I can better rationalize getting a Power Amp for $2-3k now, a pre for $ 2k 6 months or a year down the road, and then a better phono stage for $1-2k in 18 or 24 months, rather than spending $6-7k all at once.  Replacing my existing components bit-by-bit.  Just a process that makes sense to me.

Post removed 
loomisjohnson
1,943 posts
 

for years i had a denon 4802 (one model up from the 3802) and it had a damn good amp section--i passed it on to a true audiophile buddy who was also surprised by how good it sounded. however, your revels need a lot of high-current power and i would go for a parasound amp (coincidentally, i power my revel performa f30s with a parasound hca150 and it's a significant improvement from the denon).

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