IM Distortion, Speakers and the Death of Science


One topic that often comes up is perception vs. measurements.

"If you can't measure it with common, existing measurements it isn't real."

This idea is and always will be flawed. Mind you, maybe what you perceive is not worth $1, but this is not how science works. I'm reminded of how many doctors and scientists fought against modernizing polio interventions, and how only recently did the treatment for stomach ulcers change radically due to the curiosity of a pair of forensic scientists.

Perception precedes measurement.  In between perception and measurement is (always) transference to visual data.  Lets take an example.

You are working on phone technology shortly after Bell invents the telephone. You hear one type of transducer sounds better than another.  Why is that?  Well, you have to figure out some way to see it (literally), via a scope, a charting pen, something that tells you in an objective way why they are different, that allows you to set a standard or goal and move towards it.

This person probably did not set out to measure all possible things. Maybe the first thing they decide to measure is distortion, or perhaps frequency response. After visualizing the raw data the scientist then has to decide what the units are, and how to express differences. Lets say it is distortion. In theory, there could have been a lot of different ways to measure distortion.  Such as Vrms - Vrms (expected) /Hz. Depending on the engineer's need at the time, that might have been a perfectly valid way to measure the output.

But here's the issue. This may work for this engineer solving this time, and we may even add it to the cannon of common measurements, but we are by no means done.

So, when exactly are we done?? At 1? 2? 5?  30?  The answer is we are not.  There are several common measurements for speakers for instance which I believe should be done more by reviewers:

- Compression
- Intermodulation ( IM ) Distortion
- Distortion

and yet, we do not. IM distortion is kind of interesting because I had heard about it before from M&K's literature, but it reappeared for me in the blog of Roger Russel ( http://www.roger-russell.com ) formerly from McIntosh. I can't find the blog post, but apparently they used IM distortion measurements to compare the audibility of woofer changes quite successfully.

Here's a great example of a new measurement being used and attributed to a sonic characteristic. Imagine the before and after.  Before using IM, maybe only distortion would have been used. They were of course measuring impedance and frequency response, and simple harmonic distortion, but Roger and his partner could hear something different not expressed in these measurements, so, they invent the use of it here. That invention is, in my mind, actual audio science.

The opposite of science would have been to say "frequency, impedance, and distortion" are the 3 characteristics which are audible, forever. Nelson pass working with the distortion profile, comparing the audible results and saying "this is an important feature" is also science. He's throwing out the normal distortion ratings and creating a whole new set of target behavior based on his experiments.  Given the market acceptance of his very expensive products I'd say he's been damn good at this.

What is my point to all of this?  Measurements in the consumer literature have become complacent. We've become far too willing to accept the limits of measurements from the 1980's and fail to develop new standard ways of testing. As a result of this we have devolved into camps who say that 1980's measures are all we need, those who eschew measurements and very little being done to show us new ways of looking at complex behaviors. Some areas where I believe measurements should be improved:

  • The effects of vibration on ss equipment
  • Capacitor technology
  • Interaction of linear amps with cables and speaker impedance.

We have become far too happy with this stale condition, and, for the consumers, science is dead.
erik_squires

Showing 28 responses by geoffkait

Hey, that’s nothing. Two Mind Lamps 💡💡will interact with each other if left alone in the room together. And they don’t even have to be programmed. Under normal circumstances Mind Lamps interact with humans. Ye olde Mind-Matter Interaction. Yes, I know what you’re thinking, How can the human mind influence inanimate objects? 😟
Getting back to the original subject for just a second the only way I would get really interested in philosophy of science or mathematics is if it could improve the sound. Unless AI or quantum computing or whatever has some direct or even indirect audio application that I can hear forget about it. Artificial atoms I can use, though, for improving sound. So I’m down for artificial atoms, AA as I like to call them.
Well, looking on the bright side, we can create artificial atoms. That’s got to count for something.
cd318
Marketing has long abandoned the use of scientific data when attempting consumers to part with their money.

Today’s consumers often simply don’t have the time (or energy) to research purchases the way Steve Jobs once did when spending two weeks looking at washing machine performance data before actually buying one.

Audiophiles are no ordinary consumers, but even they will find scientific data in very limited supply - but not snake oil propaganda, not inference, not hearsay, not suggestion etc.

>>>>>Yeah, sure. 🙄 You might not be aware of it, but Steve Jobs was out of his ever-lovin’ mind. He didn’t even bathe for many years. That stinks, Steve! Besides, it’s a logical fallacy to say scientific data is in short supply, anyway. It has been my observation people who strenuously complain about scientific data are usually English majors. 😀
You have to watch 2001: A Space Odyssey 👨‍🚀 and Blade Runner 🦉 and Artificial Intelligence A.I. 🤖  to fully understand AI.
As I understand it AI is all about recognizing patterns and being able to learn from mistakes when provided with new information. Right away the advantages over humans should be obvious. 
And let’s not forget in these difficult and angst ridden times one way to extend the life of toilet paper is to separate the two plies. If everyone used their noodle there’d be no reason for all the hoarding. Not to mention the cardboard cylinders make excellent cable raisers. Nothing gets thrown away in this new reality and no AI required. I’m having so much fun I forgot to take my medications. 
If I’m not mistaken your humble scribe reported recently on these fora somewhere that the weight of the soul was determined to be 0.002 milligram as measured for a person who had just expired.
heaudio123
Voice recognition and speech recognition mean the same thing and you will find that almost every reference to voice recognition uses a definition that is the same as speech recognition.

If you meant voice identification, then don’t blame me for improper use of terminology.

>>>>You’re being argumentative again. I said voice recognition/voice generation. You’re just playing word games. Are you sure you’re not Ethan Winer? Or maybe roberttcan. 
Uh, I said voice and AI, Mr. Smarty Pants. 👖Could you be any more argumentative?
AI is as old as the hills. My friend for a long time was the first PhD in Computer Science from University of Illinois Urbana, the epicenter of computer science in the early 60s and was one of the developers of the first computer with AI and voice recognition/voice generation - the computer that was the model for HAL 9000 in the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey. And later on, when I worked for Computer Sciences there was AI and AI squared - Artificial Intelligence/Artificial Intuition. Even that was eons ago. Artificial Intelligence. The next best thing to the real McCoy.
Theory, hypothesis. What’s the diff? You say potato. I say potahto. Give us a break. This isn’t a convention of Harvard weenies.
IMHO Penrose went a little bit crazy later on you know, with the Emperor’s New Mind and the quantum mechanics of the brain/mind. Way too philosophical. When it come to mind-matter interaction I want some meat on the bones. If you ask me, Bohm and Rupert Sheldrake hit the nail much more on the head in terms of both mind-matter interaction and quantum mechanics of the mind. And yes, Peter Belt hit it even more on the head! The perception of sound is not entirely the signal. And the noise and distortion is not entirely that comprised in the measured Signal to Noise + Distortion ratio. 
heaudio123
What matters is that all those smarts of the brain and their ability to pull information out of a sound (and visual ) field is completely meaningless wrt defining what happens with an electrical signal. So called audiophiles without any real technical knowledge repeatedly try to use this false argument that the complexities of sound field interpretation somehow translate to equal complexities AND variables for electrical signal transmission and use that logical fallacy for their justification of all kinds of never measured, never characterized and certainly never validated effects and characteristics in electrical signal recording, transmission and playback.

>>>>At least it’s the ones without any technical knowledge who try to use that phoney baloney argument. Are you sure you’re not Ethan Winer? For real? 

andy2
The point is not to measure those that are viewed as too subjective. The point is to measure quantifiable objective parameters.

>>>>>No shirt Sherlock. But which parameters? Duh?
I don’t get it. Why would you assume phase or compression changes? 
Heaudio123, I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but the soundstage physical dimensions of depth, width and height are provided on the recording generally speaking, some recordings better than others and some systems better than others. The reason all three physical dimensions are embedded in the recording is due to the reverberant decay, first and second reflections, echos, etc., you know, just like almost any physical space. It’s a misunderstanding of the facts to say the sound is a result of two sources since even one microphone is capable of capturing all three physical dimensions. Didn’t you know that?
OK, someone was really determined to measure break in, you know instead of just talking about it, how would one actually go about it? Gentle readers, I implore you, how would you measure depth or height of soundstage, transparency, separation of instruments, perceived resolution, bass articulation, naturalness of high frequencies, air, presence, and warmth? Hel-loo! Is there a soundstage meter? Is there a glare meter? Cut me some slack, Jack.
If it was easy everybody could do it. - Old audiophile axiom

An ordinary man has no means of deliverance. - Another old audiophile axiom
I perceive the web you weave. Measurements are so passé. The perception is not the measurement.