Onhwy61, in the real world (since you have first dibs on what the real world is. AND I do agree with you) people do keep their stereo systems 'til they drop. But we're audiophools, not beholding to reality. That is why we are never satisfied. Always tweaking, upgrading, lateral movements, whatever, seeking the quintessential sound within our budget range. It is fun? Probably, most people who love music and love their eternal stereos, don't know what an IC is, PC, pre, SET, and Audiogon to name a few. We are, surely, an ideosyncratic bunch. I envy the music lover-eternal-happy with-content-finger snapping lover of tunes. They may be a lot freer than me, but I love this hobby...
If you had to pay full retail, would you...???
I recently got the Music Direct catalog in the mail. Lots of cool gear, interesting tweaks, awesome LPs. Looking over the catalog several times, I said to myself, "man, there are a lot of expensive tweaks which the un-initiated must think is simply crazy". What also struck me is that all the stuff I want, is ultra expensive and the stuff at "real-world prices" are nothing really spectacular. Even at the low end side of "high-end" gear, I would be laying out considerably more than if I went to Best Buy and bought an All in one system.
So, here is where I am headed. I have put together a pretty nice system, almost entirely found here on Audiogon, over back in the day at Audiomart. I scored my amps which retail for $13,000 for $4000. My speakers retailed for $7500 and I got em for $1500. My turntable was $500, which retail was $2500. If, I bought a new $500 turntable, I would get like a Music Fidelity MF, entry level one.
if you bought most of your system used, if you had to start from square one and had to buy Full retail, would you still be into this hobby?
Entry level high end gear really does not interest me. it lacks pizzaz, like the Avid Reference has. For what I paid for my AudioLogic tube DAC, I could only afford a Mid-level Marantz. I beleive I would still be a Music lover, but if forced to spend Full retail for high end gear, I think I would opt for mass market mid-fi, or simply do a laptop based digital system through a mass market company.
So, here is where I am headed. I have put together a pretty nice system, almost entirely found here on Audiogon, over back in the day at Audiomart. I scored my amps which retail for $13,000 for $4000. My speakers retailed for $7500 and I got em for $1500. My turntable was $500, which retail was $2500. If, I bought a new $500 turntable, I would get like a Music Fidelity MF, entry level one.
if you bought most of your system used, if you had to start from square one and had to buy Full retail, would you still be into this hobby?
Entry level high end gear really does not interest me. it lacks pizzaz, like the Avid Reference has. For what I paid for my AudioLogic tube DAC, I could only afford a Mid-level Marantz. I beleive I would still be a Music lover, but if forced to spend Full retail for high end gear, I think I would opt for mass market mid-fi, or simply do a laptop based digital system through a mass market company.
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It ironic how the hobby of listening to music has morphed for some people into trading hi-fi equipment. It's a little like those people who ride motorcycles versus those who chrome, customize and end up building machines that are unsuitable to ride more than 50 miles at a time. On cost per mile basis the motorcyclist can pay full retail and still have the better deal versus the customizer who may have got a great deal on something, but doesn't really ride much. These comments may apply to audiophile, or may be they may not. |
Onhwy61, Speaking of motorcycles; There are people who ride motorcycles and have no clue about mechanics, some may understand basic principles of mechanics but never work or fix them. Some motorbike owners like to play with their toys, fix them up (or pay others to do it), etc. and thats their hobby. Some like the sun, the road, scenery and even some like the speed with it. Look at the life of Burt Munro who constantly working on his Indian bike to make it go faster and faster. There is a great movie about him - The World's Fastest Indian. He never wasted his money at dealerships or mechanic shops and did all modifications himself. On a bike that was intended to go 50 mph and set numerous speed world records (190mph official record, 205 unofficial). All of us here have various hobbies and some of us trade gear quite frequently and some not. Some improvements are good and some is just waste of money. All amount to how much homework someone has done and how much he understands about electronics. I like to learn about various designs and find those greatly underrated or unknown pieces of equipment to build good sounding system at a fraction of a retail price. For me to pay full retail for audio gear is like buying new car waste of money. As far as paying full retail price Yes I will: at gunpoint. |
Tswhitsel: You ask how I feel about selling my gear at a 40% to 50% markdown when I upgrade? Here are a few of my thoughts on that and the other points you raise: First, I wouldn't play the game this way if that was going to bother me. The price of going for exactly what I want (which I've had the luxury of doing for the last few years) is knowing that there will be that kick when I sell it. I simply accept that as one of the costs of playing the game by my rules. Second, someone has to be the initial buyer of all the stuff that shows up in the classifieds. Every one of those items had one buyer who payed close to list. Thank me for being one of them - I know that the friends who have bought my half-priced amps are content to have me doing some of the heavy financial lifting, and I'm happy to have had the ownership experience. Whenever I've moved on from a piece I've always felt that the music I enjoyed while I had it, lessons I learned about audio and my own tastes, and the pleasure it has given its subsequent owner were worth the price. On the subject of dealers: Of course my dealer gives me good prices as well as good service. Given the coin I've dropped on him, that goes without saying. He's a friend as well, so there's no way he would jeopardize that by shaving me too close. The fact that I don't quibble when he quotes me a price means that he has really gone the extra mile when support has been required - even if it occasionally involves fixing gear I've bought elsewhere. I don't want to leave the impression that I have depended on his ears to assemble the system as I went along. In fact It's been the opposite - I have generally told him what I wanted, or at least what sound I was after as my discrimination evolved. I've frequently bought direct or from other dealers when I wanted to experience brands or styles of equipment he doesn't carry. The few times I've had "learning experiences" were when I've done this. But my dealer's ears really are that good, and everything I've auditioned on his recommendation has found a solid home in my system with no regrets. On markups: I don't worry about the markup on a piece of gear. What I worry about is whether its value to me justifies the asking price. If it does then it's a good value, no matter whether the seller is making 15% or 50%. If its value to me doesn't justify its price, I walk away. I've been in the luxury position of being able to make buying decisions based on perceived value rather than simply price. Lastly, it goes without saying that this is just how I feel comfortable doing business, given my circumstances. There are no big life lessons in here for anyone else. |
My dealer: * Lets me take in my equipment to compare to his stuff at the store * Orchestrates A/B/C tests among gear, for as long as I'd like * Lets me take home $$$ equipment to compare to my stuff in my home * Has good ears, and has taught me a lot about setup and acoustics * Sets up megabuck demos for me even though I obviously can't afford it - just for fun * Helps me pick the right gear the first time based on MY priorities - no shipping hassles for me * Always makes me feel welcome and encourages me to come and have fun often I love paying my dealer full price for gear |
