If NOS pre or power tubes became unavailable altogether, what new tubes would you buy?


Hey tuberollers, 

I'm curious to see what happens if there's a gun to your head, or more practically all NOS tubes disappear (dread).  What would you do with your line/pre stage and/or power stage?  

I have tried 5 different NOS 12AU7s and only 1 new 12AU7 in my preamp section (Cifte, RCA black plates (late 50s), Sylvanias, Baldwin organ tubes, Amperex 70s orange globes, and new Chinese stock Primaluna tubes).  In my power section, I have not tried any NOS tubes and 3 types of tubes (stock Chinese Primaluna EL34s, reissue Mullard EL34s, and reissue Gold Lion KT88s).  

Side note: I haven't ventured into NOS power tubes because of the cost and availability/scarcity.  I need 8 of them!

Without having tried anything else, I would be lost on new or reissue 12AU7s.  On the power tube side, I'd be just fine with either the reissue Mullard EL34s or the Gold Lion KT88s.  
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Showing 8 responses by deepee99

@enginedr1960I I think the only thing Raul gets me thinking is that he's a poseur: His strong opinions are not backed by any experiences he cares to share. There is no "one-size-fits-all" perfect signal path out there, or we'd all have one and there would be no need for discussion or chat rooms. The very subjective nature of the audio experience is what leads to such a multitude of opinion.
Everything distorts, from your gear to the room to the shape of your ear to the engineers and mics. I believe well-designed tube gear distorts best to my liking; with the close exception of a well cared-for S/S Bedini, it's preferable to SS distortion.
As to NOS v. modern issue, I've never had the pleasure of the Hammersmith KT-88s, but have had my run of antique NOS TS-6550s, Mullards, Brimars, Philips and the like, and the modern stuff from eastern Europe and Russia.
I believe the Chinese have gained the upper hand in sound quality for KT-88 type tubes if you stick with PSVane or ShuGuang. Both have factories in Changsha. My favourite of that lot is PSVane's top-end Mk II Treasure series. As for signal Tubes, PSV's top-end CV-181s will blow the skirts off any 6SN7 tube, NOS or otherwise, I have ever heard. But they're big bastards, almost as large as output tubes. so that's a consideration. 

Hi tubed1,

The Chinese CV-181s measure 4" from top to bottom, not counting pins, plus almost 2" diameter at the bulge, vs. 2-1/2" for a typical straight-sided 6SN7. Pin-outs are identical (as they are with mil-spec US and European VT-231s and Russian 6H8Cs. There will be very minor variations in Mu, heater current, etc., amongst different brands, vintages and runs, but all are interchangeable. 

If you're handy with a soldering iron and have a solder pump and small vice, and are on a budget, restoring the Soviet-era 6H8C metal-based MELZ tubes can give you a sound right up there with the best of the Chinese tubes. I emphasise *metal* based because the later Bakelite based 6H8Cs aren't up to hi-fi snuff except as for splitters or maybe buffers: I wouldn't use a Bakelite one in a pre-amp or driver board for voltage amplification as they're noisy. Drawback to the metal-based MELZ tubes is the crappy solder they used to affix the pins to the wires coming out of the bottle. Heat up each pin, suck the old junk solder out, and flow in some good stuff. The base-to-glass glue was, fortunately, crappy, too. So if you want to go out you can de-solder all 8 pins, remove the base, and re-tin the leads coming from the bottle with some good stuff. It's time-consuming but after some practice you can do two tubes an hour's time.

Dear @rauliruegas
Disregarding our differences on tube v. s/s, and assuming no-one has built the "perfect" anything linking source to ear, I'd ask your opinion on what you regard as the closest to perfect you've heard, irregardless of price, and same question for one on a budget of, say, <$20,000 (give or take). Thanking you in advance,
deepee99

@lewm,
Thanks for clarifying that not all 6SN7 *types* are identical. I was merely trying to assure him that he wouldn't be applying plate voltage to the grids or heaters. Electrical variations (as I mentioned) do vary from tube to tube. Of all the 6SN7 types there's only one to be leery of and that was a mil-spec RCA VT-231 that pulls significantly higher filament current and could stress the x-former tap. 
Yep, it's important to find the tube's idea point on the curve, which depends on your circuitry. I (and the design used in VTA/Tubes-4-Hi-Fi gear like about 45% for the 6SN7s I use but it's not a magic number. I sure wouldn't go much above 65-70% for such a low Mu tube.
If John Bedini could build the "near perfect sounding" amp out of sand components 30 years ago, I am sure there are ss pre-amps and pwr amps out there I'd like better than my tube lash-up. But as you say, most of the new stuff has crap fail-safe circuitry and cheap parts. Even on the tube side a lot of very expensive production gear uses junk. Why McIntosh went with the EH tubes in their driver section I'll never understand, when for a few bucks more . . .
As to s/s vs. tubes, that horse has been beaten to death. Whether tubes or s/s, the sound is going to be far more flavoured by preamp components and the amp's driver section than the honkin' amp, at least according to the all-knowing myself :-), and might be worthy of a thread if there ain't one.
Cheerio,
-d-



@rauliruegas 
If you can't identify at least one piece of gear you believe is better than whatever other piece of gear (or better yet, the entire signal path) you've heard, as I have asked you for, then I suggest your opinion reflects the depth of your experience. C'mon, give it a try. I won't flame you. I just want to know what experiences you are basing your opinions on. Perhaps I will learn something.
I have had excellent success with two tube-dealers.
McShane Designs for new, mostly Russian and European, knock-offs. Jim really puts the new tubes through a torture test before he ships. He also has a smattering of NOS tubes, but for Russian GL KT-88s, hard to beat.
For NOS, Andy Bowman at Vintage Tube Services is also very decent.
For crying out loud, @rauliruegas all the poor guy asked for was advice on tube availability. It’s like he walked into the hardware store looking for a couple of lockwashers and you’re trying to sell him a boat. Get off your high horse!