How can classical music sound natural at a heavy volume ?
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Guidocorona..
Yes many times and i tend to get seats that are no further back than the 8 th row as most are recorded no further back than row 3-5 .
A symphony as most anything that comprises live un-amplfied instruments , goes from soft and delicate , to large and powerful, they never sustain high volumes.
Whenever a statement is made about playing symphony music loud, it tells me their system is compressed and lacking in low level details and dynamics, noted due to the system's inability to swell like live music.
Listening to a symphony on a system like that, would be nothing like a live symphony, no matter how loud you turn it up.
Dob,
In the past , many moons ago , i used to measure avg usually 82-88db , crescendos sometimes hit a peak of 109 db from row 7. |
Even with compression, you can get a pretty good imaginary symphony to scale ...
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Very few systems "grow" this is the ability to have good micro and macro dynamics ..
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One have to be grateful for good things in life. I'm particularly grateful for not being your neighbor.
Kijanki ...
LOL
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How about those ICE amps ? ............. -)
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Muralman1,
Are you using H2O amplifiers to drive a 1 ohm scinnie,is this correct?
The H2O was to replace your Pass amplifiers ?
I do understand about the high and low difference when playing a 1 ohm load, I'm having the same issues with my 1 ohm ribbon, perfect at low to moderate levels then there is a sweet spot, above this the system loses it's near
perfect balance. |
I must invite henry over ...... lol...
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Henry has a 1 ohm scinnie , so i can see the amplifier being tailored for such a load .
Now my interest is peaked and definitely will have a listen to one. I know Bel canto has advised not to drive a 1 ohm load with there's.
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Kijanki
If that's the case the why his products are specified 2ohm minimum load. Am I missing something?
Most manufacturers will not list the 1 ohm operation for liability reason, but for those of us who venture there we know the ones that can. According to Murlman his can and i do know Henry has a 1 ohm scinnie himself. |
Well Muralman comments were interesting to me , as i also have to drive a 1 ohm ribbon and have limited choices.
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Mapman,
What are you using for speakers and pre into the Bel canto's.
This weekend i will be doing a comparison between my S500 series 2 threshold and a pr of Bel canto mono's on 1.6 maggies
the results will be interesting for me as I'm still on the fence with class-d .
Muralman,
Mine are a 3 way hybrid. ribbons in the mid.high only dynamic bass driver for the bass. 4 ohm on the bass and 1.5 ohm on the ribbons from 250hz to 22K.
I will take you up on the NC offer, i have a very good friend that lives in Huntersville , big hi-fi nut 2 and is into class-d himself ( rotel ) with Logans , I'm sure he would love to hear the H2O as he is not happy with the rotels ( 2 prs) |
Hello Guys ,
Well we did get the chance to compare the Bel Canto to the Threshold tonight and the Threshold won hands down. Very unusual in Hi-fi to get a consensus, so we had one of those rare moments....
CD Player: Sony
Pre-amp : ARC - SS
Speakers : Maggies 1.6 with stands
Group : 5 Hi nutters
The Bel Canto had a very immediate and powerful presentation , but the sound was harsh and hard sounding by comparison , say analog vs digital. There was more openness in the upper ranges, more apparent space, but at the expenses of finesse and many felt there was an unnaturalness about it and the Bass was horrible by comparison.
The Threshold at first sounded a bit Laid back, but proper , the more you listened, the more it sounded right , attack was there when called for , instruments etc were in a better perspective in size and placement , much better dynamics without sounding shrill , very pleasant and musical sounding where the Bel canto was hard and brittle , the threshold also presented the recording with a emotive (no pun intended)that appeared just right ...
regards,
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rx8man ,
what brand class-d ? |
The nuforce looks like it would be a little weak ( power wise) for an 1 ohm ribbon or planer type speaker.
Not saying it can't but it would appear 500 @ 1 is about what is needed for good dynamics.
Specifications:
*
Configuration: Mono Input:
RCA and true balance XLR
*
Power output (see Power FAQ)
Ref 9 V3 / Ref 9 V3SE
Power/Load 8 ohm 4 ohm 2 ohm
Peak Power ) 325W 650W 1300W (20 msec)
RMS Power 175W 335W 335W
*RMS power denotes maximum continuous power. Peak power denotes an instantaneous power boost. Note that typical listening normally requires about 15W of power. These high power amplifiers provide more than sufficient power for just about any speakers on the market.
***************
Interesting to hear of other recommended brands , so far we have .
Bel Canto
Nuforce
H2O
Others ? |
Rx8man,
Weak was inappropriate and agree it would be more than enuff for your setup ...
regards, |
Hello Gents ,
1. The Bel canto was not mine and is well broken in , it has been in this system for more than a yr and replaced a Krell
KSA 250 .
2. It was being driven by an ARC - SS not tubes ..
3. The difference was not maybe, let's try again , it was night and day , the Bel Canto had a very hard sound by comparison to the threshold. The opinions i had voiced previously were shared by all including the owner of the bel canto .
4. I would believe those that do not hear this hardness may have speakers that are not very revealing in the upper registers and if so , then i can see very good mating with the Bel canto.
5. The bass was hands down better on the Threshold , the Bel Canto bass was muddy and never had the extension.
6. As i had said previously , the Bel canto was more extended on the top and was more open , but we all felt it did so at the expense of sounding very grainy and hard by comparison. The more one listened , the less you were inclined to go back....
Again very unusual everyone in the room came to the same conclusion , 3 off the 5, own class-d , i can state without reservation "we" never expected this result , well not such an unanimous decision .
The model Bel Canto? 500M
Regards, |
Hello Gents ,
Mapman,
Note the bass was muddy and unextended on the BC vs The threshold , The muddy bass noted to maggies previously disappeared and the bass was vastly improved .
Note : Improved over previous BC500 sound , not perfect ..
The M500's are never turned off , haven't for a year always left on, Per BC instructions. The threshold was allowed 10 minutes , we never waited the difference was apparent immediately during the warm up phase and got better so we just kept going.
Count it, that in this situation, with the combination that was presented, the Threshold delivered. Again, i can see it being some what different on less revealing speakers with the noted exception of the Bass, the BC500 was not even in the same time zone here.
regards, |
Mapman,
Could you described your setup ... |
Muralman1,
Which one of your listed systems are you describing with the H2O's..
The same with Galant diva ?
Rich lives in NC , when he get's back maybe he can hear your H2O setup at the moment he is thinking of going back conventional .
regards, |
Hello Gents ,
Mapman are you suggesting the sound stage on the BC is so wide and vast , it made the bass less define and less extended vs the Threshold, because it needs more room.
What if the threshold sounds better in a smaller room , should we have moved the speakers to a smaller room to compare the sound... LOL
Guys,
I'm not saying the threshold is better than the BC, I'm saying in this setup were the BC500 lives, it did a better job.
The BC500 had a bigger sound and had more information in the upper registers , but it did so at the expense of sounding hard and unmusical by comparison, even the tonal balance was off , noted especially on Pianos.
This was the unanimous decision of all in the room ncluding the owner of the BC.
Again the Maggies are very revealing in the upper registers and on a different type speaker the results could have been different. I would suspect limited bandwidth speakers to sound better on the BC for sure .
I'm having an S500 modified and updated, maybe I will drop it off at Muralman's when in NC and have him write the next A/B review and take the heat on this ...LOL -)
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05-03-10: Rtn1
I may know what happened with the Weseixas shoot-out. This is far-fetched, but maybe he just did not like the Bel Canto amplifier? It seems at least plausible.
LOL Rtn1,
Make that all 5 ........ |
Hello Mapman,
I cannot find your system using the search feature..
regards, |
Muralman,
I was suggesting for you to host the next shootout , threshold vs the H2O. 2 members of our group lives in NC..
If not, i understand and can just Listen -)
Mapman,
I'm still not sure what you are suggesting . what does the maggies and piano have to do with my statement.
My statement is of such :
"Pianos sounded better on the threshold , especially the tonal balance vs the BC."
This was the consensus of all present not just mine including the owner of the system, it's his " maggies" and BC.
Nothing like A/B testing to put things back in perspective
of course and not noted, none of this was optimized for the Threshold, we used what he had optimized for his BC
setup , speaker leads, interconnects and his ARC -pre ( SS)
I would have liked to have tried his BC in my system , but BC advised against it and the threshold barely got warm on his , I let them rest on mine after 40 mins.
This comparison came about because my friend was very impressed with my sound with the Thresholds and was thinking of upgrading his maggies for the 1.7 .
So we did the amp thing as i wanted to know if CLass-d was the way to go and he did say the BC destroyed his Krell, so we were all curious.
I left him with the threshold , the saga continues ...this is all fun , if you open the mind and enjoy.. |
Muralman ,
Will do and good luck on your operation ..
regards, |
