ICE amps sound as diverse as class A SS amps, or any other type. I have not heard WiredFor Sound, but have experience with JRDG 312 and Bel Canto Ref 1000 Mk.2. . . . I am mostly a classical music lover. . . lots of chamber to be exact. . . and love these particular amps. . . a few other ICE amps I am somewhat less particular about. Guido |
Rpfef, my experience is that some ICEpower amps can render that magic sense of rozin and 'wood' with at least the same finesse than some rare devices designed around other technologies. By coincidence, it is the hiss of rozin and that slightly 'bristly' harmonics from lower bowed strings instruments that which I seek in music reproduction. . . and also the rare 'good' kind of intermodulation. . . the one that you hear sometimes emanating from the middle of your skull while listening to solo violin doing multipart counterpoint. . . e.g. on the HDCD recording of Lara St. John playing Bach works. I can hear this kind of magic from 2 of my favorite amps, both currently in my system, the ICEpower Rowland 312 stereo and the equally ICEpower-based Bel Canto Ref 1000 Mk.2 monos. |
Hi Simon, excellent question. . . to which I can't give an answer yet. I am in the process of breaking in the Bel canto as we speak. . . I am feeding them through Cardas Golden Ref PCs. . . while I had been feeding the 312 with a SR T3 for a little while. Once break in on Bel canto is complete I will take some good listening notes, then move the Cardas Golden Ref to the 312 and take more notes. I am in 'sunny' Toronto right now freezing my Texas buns off. . . I'll resume listening to music on Sunday after I get back home. |
Weseixas, ever been in a concert hall where 130 musicians are performing Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. . . or simply a soloist digging into his instrument? . . . Quite an experience! . . . "heavy volume" indeed! G. |
Muralman1, as I am a Dvorak fan, what performance of the 9th symphony are you referring to? G. |
Thank you Al and Vince, I will look up the Horenstein and Slatkin performances. one of my 'standard candles' used to gage the ability of a system to yield highly emotional music without suffering from electronic aneurysms is the Bernstein performance with the Israel Phil on DGG--tape his, audience coughs, drop bows, Lenny's 'sound effects' of podium rain-dances and thumps and singing under his breath and all included. . . 2nd movement is the most intensely lyrical I have experienced this far. . . just the opposite of Fritz Reiner's strangeley famous read-through.
It may be worth pointing out that the Bernstein other recording, with the NY Philharmonic I believe, available on SACD is a rather sleepy affair instead.
Apologies for minor thread derailment. G. |
Thank you so much Rafael, I will look for the Kertesz performance. G. |
Amenh Rtn1! Fact is that starting with the ending of the Classical era, throughout the Romantic and post-romantic period, there has been a steady swelling of orchestral forces and dynamic demands on them imposed by applicable scores. Bass range is not the only affected by such demands. . . a listen to various works, starting with later Beethoven symphonies, Brahms symphonies, Berlioz, mahler nearly entire opus, Bruckner, Dvorak symphonies and cello concerto,Stravinsky fauviste works, early Schonberg, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Varese, Stockhausen, and Ligeti just to name very few, show massive tutti full range treble-to-bass orchestral sostenutos. Not to mention all those fizzy kitchy transcriptions of the Moussorgsky Pictures at an Exhibitions, whose orchestrators should be all suspended by their thumbs for crimes committed against good taste.
G. |
Mapman, you are correct of course, the sound of Ref 500M appears to differ from Reff 1000M to some extent. Yet, I am not sure if the reason is simply the different series of power conversion module, or it's a mix of design, module series characteristics, and power rating. G.
Rx8man, select audio dealers, occasionally prone to the odd personal barb or 2, sometimes may want to dust off the old Dale Carnegie paperback on "Zen, and the art of friends maintenance" or something vaguely to that effect. G. |
"... Class D amps performance can vary depending on how they get their power.Dirt in dirt out.
They won't sugar coat things like some warm ripe tube gear can.
And they won't rob you of all the music you paid to hear either in that sea of syrup."
Ah, golden words Lacee!
I happen to have chosen a class D amp, not because it is a 'good price-performer', but because it is purely a great sonic performer. . . I prefer its sound over any other amp I tried. Of course, the fact class D amps are green products is a huge bonus. . . I can play music 24/7 without the wife's complains about the power bill.
Like Lacee, I have found a high degree of synergy between my Rowland Model 312 stereo amp and Shunyata power cords... in particular the new King Cobra CX, a 5-gager which appears to me a blazingly nimble deliverer of current on demand without artifacts or flaws that I could detect.
Interestingly, in spite of 312's multilevel power supply regulation and PFC front end, the amp does benefit from top notch power conditioning. . . I have not tried any Shunyata power conditioners yet on 312, but have this far had most desirable results with 312 plugged into Furutech Daytona ETR-303, plugged in turns into a dedicated outlet.
In my experience with 312, BC Ref 1000M, and even NuForce, , a good class D amplifier definitely needs a good pre, yet this pre needs not be tubed for my ears. For driving class D amps, I have preferred SS Roland Capri and even more SS Rowland Criterion over my tubed ARC Ref 3.
On the subject of ICs and speaker wires, my entire system (with both JRDG 312 and BC Ref 1000M) appears to be quite sensitive. . . for me most desirable results from very good to fabulous have been in ascending order with Furutech Evolution II, Furutech Hi Performance custom wires, and--with a significant performance leap over the previous--Shunyata Aurora.
G. |
Thank you Michael, Joule-Electra has an excellent reputation and the matching with Spectron comes highly recommended by Simon Thacher. I experienced a similar performance leap migrating from Capri to the Rowland Criterion reference pre for feeding the Rowland 312. It is probably an issue of consistent voicing across the product line, as much as it is the degree of isolation of the power supply, the type of transformer coupling of inputs and outputs that pretty well avoids any impedance mismatch, and I could go on waxing poetic on technical detail. . . . Lots of paths to Nirvana, isn't it? G. |
From the Rowland side you can likely add: Model 501 monos + twin PC-1 rectifiers, Continuum 500 integrated, Model 312 stereo, Model 301 monos. 301 Yields 90Amps peak per chassis. . . Other models half as much. 501s works best front-ended by PC-1, because it does not incorporate PFC in the power supply regulation.
Worth pointing out that most manufacturers are a somewhat conservative lot, and may not admit support for 1 Ohm loads in product literature. . . usual caveat emptor I guess. G. |
Weseixas, which Bel Canto monos did you try? . . . Ref 1000, Ref 1000M(same as Ref 1000 Mk.2), Ref 500M?
Did the Bel Canto have at least 1000 hours of music to its credit? ICEpower amps require an inordinate breakin time, while your vintage Threshold is of course fully broken in.
Did you leave the BC to play in the background for several hours prior to evaluation? ICREpower amps take about 24 hours to yield their best after powerup. |
Bill, inadvertently you have used a term that can be interpreted as a remark "ad hominem".. .
From the American heritage Dictionary:
1. disingenuous. adjective. Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating: "an ambitious, disingenuous, philistine, and hypocritical operator, who ... exemplified ... the most disagreeable traits of his time"
(David Cannadine).
I am of course positive you did not mean any of it. I am sure you agree that we should maintain the most urbane level of discourse on this board.
Thanks for your help, Guido |
Thank you Weseixas, could you post the exact system configuration you used in the test, including cabling/PCs complement? If you already have, my apologies.
How long had the 2 amplifiers been warmed up before being inserted into the active/live audio chain?
I am not trying to dispute your opinions. . . just hoping to get complete context, so your findings gain greater applicability. G. |
Weseixas, thank you so much for the additional information. Anything you can tell us about wiring, XLR vs RCA, and the rest of the system's electronics?
G. |
