I went from Class D to Luxman A/AB - And most of what you think is wrong

Erik:"To repeat, the point of this thread is not "my amp sounds better than yours." It is that we need to stop using 1990's Class D sound to describe modern Class D. Treat modern Class D amps as you would any other amp and decide what to buy or not based on your own ears."

Amen! 
     I switched from good class AB amps (McCormack, Adcom and Aragon) to my first class D amp(a ClassD Audio SDS-440-CS stereo amp) about 12 yrs ago.  I was so impressed I replaced all my class AB amps in my combo 2-ch music and 5.4 HT surround system with class D amps soon after(an Emerald Physics EP-100.2EP for my center and a pair of D-Sonic M3-600-M mono-blocks for my mains).
    I perceive my class D amps main characteristics as having a very high Signal/Noise ratio resulting in a dead-quiet background noise level and a high level of detail, very good dynamics, extremely low distortion levels, especially good bass response with a detailed but very smooth midrange and treble and overall a very neutral presentation with nothing seemingly added or subtracted from the inputted signals, like the audio ideal of a 'straight wire with gain'.
     Class D amps also have significant and numerous non-audio benefits such as small size, light weight, relative affordability, cool to tepid operating temps and  high electrical efficiency both during use and at idle.
      I understand the appeal of all the various amp types and know excellent sound quality can be attained using any of them.  Of course, we should all just use the amp we like best.  I choose to use class D amps in my system due to a combination of sound quality and non-audio benefits.


Tim

    Great post snapsc!

        Your description of the performance characteristics of your Digital Amplifier Company 2Cherry class D amp to what I experience with my D-Sonic M3-600-M mono-block class D amps are remarkably similar.
        I also found your discussion on the psychology of change very interesting and relevant. Having been a manager of large groups of individuals in a constantly changing and fast paced environment, I'm well aware that individuals have varied, wide ranging and evolving reactions to change. Typical reactions progress from skepticism and firm resistance to reluctance and mild resistance to acceptance and little resistance to education, experience and complete understanding leading to no resistance and the eventual embracing of change. 
     Individuals will vary in their initial reaction to change which will dictate their beginning stage in this evolutionary progression of stages of human reactions to change. The most successful individuals learn to expect constant change, look for opportunities where change would be beneficial, seek to completely understand the change and eventually embrace constant change.
     I should point out that these stages of individuals' reactions to change I described above are just my thoughts and recollections spurred on by snapsc's mentioning of the psychology of people on change.  I've never read any of Daniel Kahneman's writings, or any writings, on the psychology of change. My thoughts are based on the behavior of employees who worked with me confronted with change and are a summary of what I learned.    
      The presence of good quality class D solid state amps, as an additional option to the more traditional tube and solid state amps, was a change to home audio that I believe follows the normal variance pattern individuals demonstrate in their reactions to change in general.
       My first experience with a class D amp in my system was about 12 yrs ago when I bought a ClassD Audio SDS-440-CS stereo amp (220w/8 ohm 440w/4 ohm,15lbs with a linear power supply and Texas Instruments class D modules) for about $500 to drive my pair of Magnepan 2.7QR speakers (4 ohm and 86dB efficient). It was about 1/5th the size and weight of my prior amp, a class AB Aragon 4004 MKII, but still delivered a bit more power (440w/ch at 4ohm vs 400w/ch).    
    I paired a VTL 2.5L preamp with a set of 4 NOS Mullard tubes with this new class D amp and was amazed by the performance even straight out of the box with zero run-in time. Of course, it just sounded better with run-in time over a few weeks.  The outstanding characteristics I quickly noticed were the extremely low background noise level, the high degree of detail and the best bass response I had ever heard up to this point from the 625 square inch dipole bass sections in each of my 3-way Magnepan speakers. Taut, detailed, natural and impactful bass that I had no idea these speakers were even capable of producing.  I think this must have been a result of the extremely high damping factor (>1,000) that this little class D amp possessed. 
     The midrange and treble response was also very good, smooth, detailed, natural, with no hint of shrillness or harshness and with a well defined, solid and stable soundstage  illusion projected.  I realize that my tube preamp likely assisted in this very good performance but the combination of the VTL preamp with the class D amp sounded at least equal in sound quality to the combination of the same preamp with my previous class AB Aragon amp.
     Given my great first experience with a class D amp, I was surprised to discover that some posters on Agon at the time and since have claimed to hear deficiencies in the sound of class D amps that confused me since I was completely unable to detect any of their claimed deficiencies such as 'harshness and shrillness in the treble', 'a lack of high frequency extension and air' and 'the carrier frequency being too low and causing sonic anomalies in the audible range'.
     12 yrs later and owning several additional class D amps and listening to many more, I am still unable to detect any of the continually claimed deficiencies in class D amps.  I've come to the conclusion that  either these are false claims or that some individuals, for some currently unknown reasons,  perceive deficiencies in the performance of class D amps that others do not perceive.  An oversensitivity or allergy to class D sound.?  I'm just trying to figure out this dichotomy between those that love class D and those who don't like it at all.


Tim

     I also leave my two stereo and one pair of mono-block class D amps on 24/7 and they do sound considerably better when fully warmed up than from a cold startup from being off for awhile.


Tim

audiofun,

     I believe the issues you've experienced with SMPSs are the result of RF interference most likely escaping from the component due to insufficient internal shielding and isolation.  This is based on what I've read and not personal experience.

Tim

bigkidz,

     The Merrill Veritas mono-blocks at about $10K/pair are one of the best class D monos currently available.  They also just introduced some even more expensive monos that use the very fast switching and new GaN transistors instead of the traditional FETs.  These are the Element 114, 116 and 118 models that are starting to get rave reviews but are expensive, with the Element 114 priced at $15K/pair.
     I don't consider these reasonably priced but I'm not sure of your budget.
     If you'd like some very good class D amps reasonably priced, I'd suggest considering amps from D-Sonic.  They offer very good stereo and mono-block amps with even their top models priced well under $3K.  I've owned their older model M3-600-M monos for about 4yrs and they are extremely good powering my Magnepans.  The latest model of these are the M3a-600-M priced at $2,150/pair and the top of the line monos are the M3a-1500-M priced at $2,750/pair. They also offer stereo amps for even less.  Here's their website:
://www.d-sonic.com/amplifiers
     I'd suggest calling and discussing with the owner, Dennis Deacon, which amps would be the best fit for your Vandersteen 5As. A 30-day trial period is offered on all their amps.



     

toetapaudio:
"@noble100, f.y.i. In a recent test of various class D amps by someone we know in the business GAN amps did not come out top but were pretty high up. The other D amps were cheaper. My advice stick with your NC1200 module amps."

  Hello toetap,

    Sorry about the delay in responding, I had stopped following this thread but just checked back.
     I've haven't heard a class D amp using the newer GaN transistors yet, I've just read some very positive reviews on a few amps using them.  I'm not an electrical engineer or amp designer but it still makes a lot of sense  to me that these very fast switching transistors are likely to only improve the performance of any device they're deployed in. 
      For example, I've read that GaN transistors are capable of switching so fast they literally eliminate dead-time and any resulting distortion caused by it.  I would imagine that any good amp designer would believe that substituting these for the typical FETs used would result in significant improvements in the sound quality of any class D amps, or really any solid-state amps, that they're utilized in.  
     I'd prefer to personally compare some good class D amps using GaN transistors to my current D-Sonic M3-600-M class D monoblocs, which actually utilize Abletec ALC-1200-1300 and not Hypex NC1200 class D power modules, before passing judgement on their sound quality performance.  I'm willing to pay more if I perceive these new class D amps as sounding significantly better 

Thanks for the info,
        Tim

I actually feel bad for georgehifi.

He has so many real or imagined allergies and afflictions to exceptionally good class D amplification that he’s unable to derive the same pleasure from hi-end sound quality at such affordable prices like so many others like us enjoy on a daily basis.

Poor George,
Tim