I'm confused


I like to spend time on Audiogon to educate myself. However, the more I educate myself, the more confuse I get. That shows how novel I am.

Here is my case. I have 7 power-hungry speakers with handling power from 50-250watt. Due to small room size (12'X13'), my current HT set up 5.1 Thinking 90wpc is sufficient, I received a free used Denon 2802 as a gift. My AVR got clip once when I was watching Tears From the Sun too loud. I learned that b/c 90wpc was not continuously power driven, the true wpc could get reduced substantially. So here are my options below.

1) Get 7-channel amp (100 - 200wpc) to go w/ current Denon AVR. Cons: some body said that I am better off saving my $ by using the amp from current AVR since multichannel amp is not any better. Is this true?

2) Use my current AVR or upgrade to better, more powerful one since multi-channel does not add much value to the quality of sound compared to the amount of money added. Cons: Sound quality?

3) Get 2-channel amp to drive main speakers during stereo mode. Get additional 3-channel amp to drive center and side rear speakers. In the future, get additional 2 channel to complete the 7.1 setup. Cons: really limited space, really excessive generated heat, and really expensive.

4) Go separate like the Outlaw combo -- 7X200wpc amp and a separate preamp/processor for ~ $2400. Cons: entry preamp/processor won't make a difference compared to other higher-end preamp/proc? Moreover, I can get a better quality pre-own combo for less amount of money, and if so DOES THE WPC ON PREAMP/PROC HAVE TO MATCH W/ WPC ON MULTI-CHANNEL AMP?

Even though the info provided is very limited, if you were me, which option would you pick and explain why you pick such option or eliminate others. I'm new to this, so I'm all ears. Each response got my full, undivided attention.
lej1447

Showing 6 responses by lej1447

Marty9876,
Sorry for I forgot to post, but the impedance is 8 ohms. Given such, should I change the setting for speakers on AVR to "small" per your recommendation? I figure out the advantage, but what is the disadvantage?

Is power conditioner a highly recommended gear for a 7-ch amp or even 3-ch powerful amp, especially when there is no dedicated outlet? Get rid of my Monster powerbar?

If I go w/ the separates like Outlaw, is it worth the money? Can most peoples ears differentiate the improvement in quality, especially when you mention minutes details in recording?
I didn't post my gear b/c I was afraid such posting would be too long. However, here are my gears and my preference so that I can get more specific help.

* Speakers for main and surround:
Acoustic Research Phantom 8.3 series (quantity = 6)
45-20kHz +/- 3db, 89db sensitive, 50-250 watts
* Center speaker (quantity = 1):
Acoustic Research Phantom 252C with similar spec.
* Subwoofer: Polk PSW350 (150watt)
* Power surge conditioner: Monster Powerbar 2100
* 42" Panasonic plasma w/o tuner or speaker.
* Listening Preference: 50% TV shows, 40% Movies, and
20% Music Videos, ranged from Classical to Hip Hop.

Note: Don't plan to expand from 5.1 to 7.1 for another 5 years. Deal on matching speakers was too good to refuse. Currently, I love to watch & listen music videos through surround sound mode of 5 speakers. Eventually, it will be 7-speaker surround mode.

Questions:

1) The most cost-effective quick-fix method to minimize clip is to get 3-channel amp to drive center & main speakers while the Denon AVR to drive the remaining rear? How about getting a 2channel amp since 50% of my time is to watch regular TV shows in Stereo mode?

2) On one side of the wall, there is 2 electrical outlets w/ only 1 Monster Cable Powerbar 2100 plugged in. Is this considered a dedicated outlet? Is Monster Powerbar sufficient or do I have to get a stage 4 Power conditioner?

3) Any other input regarding suggestion, equipment, and...?
Thank you all for your inputs. If you haven't done so, yet you have some ideas for improvement, please post them here so that I can learn from your valuable experience.

For a quick-fix in this case, I should get the following two items with the first one as the highest priority.

1) Add a 3-channel amp to current Denon AVR.
2) Get rid of Monster Powerbar & get a better power surge
conditioner.
**********************************

Sean,

You may laugh, but at this moment, those two extra speakers are in the box in my bedroom. Are you familiar with such speakers?
Guys, thank you very much. I have a heading direction. Glad that I came here to seek your expertise for valuable advice.

Marty9876 and Gunbei, I will experiment with "small speaker" setting on my AVR as I dump more load onto the subwoofer.

Buscis2, I will try your suggested experiment before I toss out my Monster Powerbar and head out for a power conditioner.

Sean and Cytocycle, I love your ideas, i.e. getting a multi-channel amp, and still working on it. By experimenting the setting on gears per recommendations of other Audigon members, I will definitely have more time to wait for a good pre-owned multi-channel amp to show up. Once I have a good amp, hopefully, I can change the setting to "large speakers" on AVR in order to experience the full frequency, which the Phantom speakers offer.

I'm not confused any more!!!!!!
Buscis2,
Your statement is very valid. Since my HT is not even high end, how do other pros address such issue? If AC outlet is the constraint, how do they run their high-end systems, which consist of numerous higher power amps and many bigger speakers?

Gunbei,
If the crossover is set so high, why do people want to spend lots of money on hi-end speakers that can produce low freqency?

I'm confused!!!!!!
Here is my update. On my AVR, I changed the speakers to small rather than large, changed the bass to subwoofer only rather than to a combination of main speakers and subwoofer, set the dynamic to normal rather than max, and adjusted the crossover higher on Denon and subwoofer. I poped in The Lord of The Rings, and it sounded rather flat, not as dynamic. Bass was really nondirectional rather than coming from all speakers, especially the front. The voice of Gandorff lacked the warmth that he used to have. In fact, he almost sounded like my 2-yr-old daughter as she was my reference guide. On the bright side, speech was not as muddy.

When I changed all settings back, it sounded really really good, much more dynamic, except when I pushed the limit by turning the volume knob down to -24db. The left main speaker popped twice quickly during the heavy bass.

How much power is enough? It depends. In my case, perhaps a little more. I have wood floor. On the wall, I have a plasma and two rear speakers. When I watch movie, I often leave my window openned for ventilation and my French doors openned for the cool breeze at night. Most importantly, I leave them openned so my head does not spin w/ buzzing sound from heavy bass at the end of the movie. I just couldn't resist the blasting effect.

Tonight, I am no longer confused. I have learned much more from you all. I learn about the limitations. It is a vital process in getting to the truth. It is a concensus that my Denon needs an amp. I am sure with the amp, I can experience MORE dynamic sonic spectrum. I can hear voice with warmth (not muddy); at the same time, I can hear the crystal sound the moment the dropping pin makes contact w/ the rim of the glass. It is a concensus that I need a dedicate source of strong and clean AC.

More importantly, I learn that Marty9876 has been right all this time. "Pick another hobby," he wrote. I reluctnatly learn about my fundamental limitation. It is called cash flow. After all these consultations, I have learned that it takes a lot more cash to get just a little closer in achieving perfection.

Perhaps, if I am good through out the rest of the year, Santa Clause will bring me a nice amp to hook up to my gears. In the meantime, I ought to lower the volume as I ought to mingle more with my nice neighbors.