I have perfected my network for the nth time


This is the complete summation of my efforts to optimize my network for streaming music. I started out with a combination of wired ethernet and fiber optic and ended with a completely wired network with passive filtration. This article represents only one of the myriad ways that exist to set up a network around myriad component choices. Your network will be a variation on mine as all systems are ultimately unique. It also represents a “no stone unturned” effort around the realization that “everything matters.” As such, I hope it will be a reference to those newly starting out, or to those currently in the process of searching for the best sound.

Let me humbly share my journey of tweaking my streaming network that I built around a Small Green Computer bundle. Back when I initially set up this configuration I modeled it exactly after Michael Lavorgna’s recommendations, now of Twittering Machines. It was stated that wired ethernet contains a multitude of music destroying noises that must be dealt with. Who was I to argue. At the time I didn’t even know what an ethernet switch was (a free- lance musician and private music teacher leading a sheltered existence) .

The bold type face in the following diagrams indicate elements that will be changed and explained as you progress through the text:

FO through wall > ONT,smps > 8tac tenrehte > router,smps > cat 8 > $15 switch,smps > cat 8 > i5 Transporter,smps.

Same switch > cat 8 > FMC,smps > Fiber optic > FMC,smps > cat 8 > ultraRendu with LPS > Pangea Audio Premier SE MKII USB Cable > Benchmark DAC3B.

I had completely solved all power problems in my system to achieve a superior black background. The above still had grunge :

1. I added a LPS with a Y adapter to power both FMC = better

2. I added a LPS to the Transporter = better

3. I replaced the LPS power chords with Pangea Audio AC-14SE MkII = better

4. I wrapped my fiber optical cable in bubble wrap. It seems they are sensitive to vibrations. = better

5. I replaced the 3 post switch cat8 ethernet cables with Pangea Premier SE = way way way better, but STILL some remaining niggly grunge!

6. I had not bought into the $700-$10,000+ ethernet switch mania. I had bought my $15 plastic covered switch from Home Depot. I did try a more expensive switch and sent it back because I could hear no improvement. I rewired post switch and removed the FMCs. LISTENED. Then I added the FMCs back in. They were definitely improving the sound, by a lot!

I ordered a iFi iPower X Ultra Low Noise AC/DC Power Supply for the switch. I took out the FMCs again and installed the new PS. WHAM!! The sound came into complete focus. I reinstalled the FMCs and now a huge amount of grunge had disappeared.

7. The new Pangea Audio Premier XL MKII USB Cable came on the market, which separates out the 5v current wire from the signal wires. Because my Benchmark DAC was using the 5v current, I replaced my previous Pangea Audio Premier SE MKII USB Cable (same wire and connectors) and wiped another smear of noise from the window. This is the single biggest improvement of all these suggestions.

8. Shutting the WIFI off in my primary router and using a wireless access point to regain WIFI for the house. It has resulted principally in opening up the sound-stage : width, depth, with clearer separation. This was the elephant masking the remaining network problems. I subsequently had to go back into my router when I realized I also had to disable the broadcasting of the router name and also disable the WAN feature to get the complete quiet I was looking for. The result was truly  startling.

9. I lived with this WIFI tweak for two weeks and I gradually became aware of a persistent coloration that I eventually came to realize was masking the harmonic structure of the music. Once I defined the problem there was no ignoring it. The problem had to be solved.

I started digesting the suggestions in this thread for optimizing an optical filter as I watched the $$$ mount while listing things to buy. I remembered that Mr. Lavorgna moved on by replacing his optical filter with a GigaFOIL. I found a thread on this very subject from that time period. Some level-headed fellow suggested removing the filter for a listen before proceeding. He had become unconvinced of the need for filtering. It was simple to connect an ethernet cable directly from my switch to the Sonore ultraRendu. I pushed play on Qobuz not knowing what to expect. Not only was the coloration banished, but the musicians exploded into the room, the result of expanded dynamic freedom . I was sitting there like a one-year-old that had seen his first Jack-in-the-Box! I stayed up late last evening listening to favorites with profound new revelations at every turn of phrase.

I decided to redo the test I had done previously comparing Dudamel conducting Ives Symphony 2 : Qobuz 24/96 vs CD 16/44.1. The first time I reported that they sounded identical. Now they did not. The Qobuz sounded like a SACD and the CD sounded like a CD, which is how it should sound when comparing different resolutions. The CD sounded like the colored generic-optical stream and the all-wired stream of Qobuz sounded much more open and revealing of a multitude of detail.

My network is now simplified being all wired ethernet with no optical:

FO through wall > ONT,smps > 8tac tenrehte > router,smps > cat 8 > $15 switch with iFi PS > Pangea ethernet > i5 Transporter with LPS

Same switch > Pangea ethernet > ultraRendu with LPS > Pangea Audio Premier XL MKII USB Cable > Benchmark DAC3B.

 

10. Let’s do some testing. I stumbled on this looking for other advice. It was reported that the ethernet cable direction makes a difference. My findings: definitely!!!!!

Test piece : Qobuz stream 16/44.1 : Elliott Carter "Horn Concerto" which is a highly detailed and dramatic work sure to reveal any differences.

First, I reversed cat8 between ONT and router and a veil was removed!!

Second, I reversed Pangea ethernet between switch and Sonore ultraRendu, and I had it right the first time.

Third, I reversed Pangea between switch and Transporter i5 resulting in severe sonic degradation. Back to the way it was originally.

I don’t have the courage to reverse the 50’ cat8 running under my floor and suspended with cable ties, but extrapolating from what I heard, I think I got it right(grin).

Three out of four isn't bad, but that one reversal has taken things to a new level of dynamic freedom and sonic clarity.

I was grateful for this new discovery because it gave me a foundation to further explore ethernet cabling in my system. Initially I researched out an inexpensive Chinese brand of cat8 that had excellent published specs and just went with it. When I substituted Pangea cables post switch (Every component in my system has to be best value for the dollar, systematically synergistic, and musical sounding. No budget busting or retirement account draining devices allowed!) I got a nice jump in clarity and left it at that. Now, when I had just removed the optical filter from my network, I had an extra Pangea and decided to try it between my ONT and router.

This involved some work as the cable was short necessitating me moving my router much closer to the ONT. I removed the Ethernet cable whose direction had been determined, with a cable whose direction was not determined. I had to try it both ways and then go back and forth between cables a couple of times, and the Pangea won. The Chinese cable sounds wonderful but just a little smooth and a little less open on the top. This is subtle but clear to me, and the more open cable leads to less fatigue in longer listening sessions.

This suggests that the remaining 50' Chinese cable MAY need to be replaced and I ordered a 20m Supra cat8 and Linkup cat8.

11. Ladies and Gentlemen : the results of The Great Ethernet Cable Shootout. The contenders:

a. Pangea Premier SE cat8 26awg Cardas Grade One silver-coated copper, audiophile claims .6m (Audio Advisor)

b. Gigaware cat6 24awg 15m (Radio Shack)

c. Chinese No-name cat8 26awg 15m published specs (Amazon)

d. Linkup cat8 22awg 15m published specs (Amazon)

e. Supra cat8+ 26awg 20m audiophile claims, published specs (ebay)

All cables were individually listening tested for directionality. It was conclusively unanimous, all of the ethernet cables sounded better one way than the other. When installed backwards the principal result was a shrinking of the sound-stage. It seemed the longer the cable the more dramatic the effect. Since none of the cables had marked arrows, the chances of correct installation when testing a new cable was 50%, and that is what I achieved. With a little experience I could hear the narrow sound-stage in less than a minute. These results are corroborated in Audio Quests ethernet cable literature :

Directionality
All audio cables are directional. The correct direction is determined by listening to every batch of metal conductors used in every AudioQuest audio cable. Arrows are clearly marked on the connectors to ensure superior sound quality. For best results, have the arrow pointing in the direction of the flow of music. For example, NAS to Router, Router to Network Player.

After I had corrected the reversed cable in my network, and replaced the short Chinese cat8 with Pangea, the sonic improvements led me to suspect the 15m Chinese cat8 as a potential bottleneck in my network.

ONT > Pangea > router > WINNER of the Shootout > switch > Pangea > Sonore ultraRendu

A. I installed the Gigaware cat6 that I used when I first started to experiment with streaming years ago. The sound was horrible. It reduced the sound of $$$$ equipment to the sound of $$ equipment.

B. The Chinese cat8 was good sounding and I could get Qobuz 24/96 tracks to sound like SACD. When after weeks of reading this thread and working on my network I listened to silver discs again, I found a subtle difference which I felt I needed to pursue, leading to this test.

C. The Linkup cat8 is an industrial strength cable, unusually thick and stiff. My initial impression was it is going to need significant break in time. After 24 hours it sounded better but in no way settled. My impression was that it is a system dependent cable. I am pretty sure it will never be the right fit for me.

D. The SLAM-DUNK WINNER is SUPRA 8. When I dropped this into my system the instincts leading to this test were completely justified. Indeed, the Chinese cable was holding the sound hostage. The sound-stage opened to new unheard of width and depth. The dynamics were so free and the musicians were so present, I wondered why I could not smell their sweat. I did not think to look at my speakers because it was obvious there was no music was emanating from them!

Upon reflection there is a synergy between the Pangea and Supra, a perfect marriage. Each allow the other complete freedom to do its thing. Since I will never hear a complete loom of either Pangea or Supra, I cannot conjecture what they would sound like. I don’t care, because when you have found the love of your life, you will only confuse yourself or do harm by continuing to play the field.

There are so many other brands/models to choose from. Many of you have your favorites. For me the above setup is a cost-effective value-for-performance solution that I always search for.

While I was testing, it was easy to run each ethernet cable to my new wireless access point and stream music to my laptop > iFi usb filter > AudioQuest Dragonfly Red > headphones. In each case, the sonic signature of the cables described above was broadcast over WIFI. This suggests there is no free lunch and a quality cable is needed.

 

12. I gathered the pieces to replace the smps for my ISP ONT and router:

a. iFi elite 12v 4a PS

b. DC cable Y adapter 18awg

c. Pangea 14awg PC

d. Brickwall surge protector

The installation of them opened the soundstage to cavernous dimensions, brought unbelievable separation to complex music, and a wonderfully beautiful tonality.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I declare my network optimized!

 

  1. I am back. After getting through #12 above, I was a tired and worn out audiophile and needed to return to being a melomaniac, my chief feature. After three months of joyfully listening to music on LPs, silver discs, and Qobuz, the audiophile lights started to flash into my attention. I was listening to a CD of Brahm’s Symhony 2, Dohnanyi, Cleveland Orchestra on London. The performance was immersive and the sound was definably solid in audiophile terms. I wondered how it would compare to the streamed 16/44.1 version. Here we go down the rabbit hole. There was no favorable comparison. The streamed sound was bleached and the dynamics impeded. Could this be be the “ethernet noise” that I had so far been unable to quantify? Could I do a quick test on my hypothesis that did not use fiber optics?

 My network with possible filtration points: 1,2 etc.

ONT > cat 8 > (5) router (4) > cat 8 > $15 switch > cat 8 > (3) i5 Transporter

Same switch > cat 8 > (2) ultraRendu (1) > USB cable > DAC

I remembered that I had an iFi iSilencer USB noise filter that I had purchased to use with my Audio Quest Dragonfly Red DAC some years ago. I had considered trying it in the big rig several times but considered it unworthy due to prejudice (no one is immune). When I tried it in position 1 above there was a definite improvement. iFi has a new version called iFi iSilencer+, which I ordered and was rewarded with another big step in enhanced performance.

Was I done? I noticed iFi had an iFi LAN iSilencer in their catalogue. I reached out to Ifi support and asked what I could expect if I piggy-backed these in the same network. I got an immediate, thoroughly helpful, and cheerful reply stating I would probably experience “diminishing returns”, but you never really know until you try for yourself. Off went the order. I tried it in position 2 and it was not optimal to have two filters on the in and out of the same device. There was a slight but discernable squashing of the sound-stage. When I moved the LAN filter to position 3 I got a huge improvement that was additive. I moved it from position 3 to 4 and heard a new kind of good while sacrificing the previous good. I ordered a second LAN filter.

Trying LAN filters in positions 3 and 4 and the USB filter in position 1, I was rewarded with an other additive upgrade in performance! I moved one filter from position 4 to 5 and it just sounded wrong.  Back to 4 and I was done filtering for $250 plus tax and no new boxes, PS, PC, etc.

  1. While I was waiting for the various filters to arrive I realized I had not yet experimented with mechanical isolation with my router, PS, surge protector (12 above). I bought another bag of hockey pucks and used stacks of 2 under devices until they were stable and achieved another huge improvement! I also tested elevating the PCs and 20m Supra CAT 8+ ethernet cable from the floors around the router and in the listening room. I was rewarded again. DO IT!

When you are working on your network and pondering your progress, be sure to compare “apples to apples” or CD verses 16/44.1 as your principle test. When they match you have truly achieved something. There are many files on the streaming services that are not the same as the CD so you have to use your experience to make sure you are on the right track. I am now getting as close to equality comparing CD to streaming 16/44.1 as I am likely to get and have probably achieved parity. The improvements I have brought to CD level streaming have scaled nicely to higher resolution streams, opening up sonic vistas that were subtly masked before and now stunning to witness. After all, what is a direct comparison to these resolutions? My streaming has become a truly satisfying experience.

Ladies and Gentlemen, for the second time, I declare my network optimized (until the audiophile lights start flashing)!

 

Now I am going to jump into the weeds and try to draw some conclusions :

a. There are two (three) ways to skin this network cat : All wired or conversion to all optical, both can sound equally good, although I personally have not heard optimized optical. (In addition there probably are those who have optimized WIFI setups.)

b. I think another reason for my success with all wired ethernet is the installation of a whole-house surge protector. This not only has lowered the line voltage from 126v to around 122v, but also seriously lowered the electrical noise floor. This has benefits for a network being installed in multiple rooms and on different electrical legs.

c. I am sensing that before the WIFI tweak (ref 6 above), the optical filter could remove some, but not all of the upstream noise, suggesting a confirmation of the original poster’s assertion of signal damage. This could and should be investigated by someone with the right equipment and expertise. What happens to the square wave when subjected to intense RFI in these router combos?

d. Wired network optimization now consists of the tried and true audiophile tweaks of quality cabling, ALL THINGS POWER, mechanical isolation, and passive filtering. In addition optical network optimization needs the highest quality converters with additional LPS and PCs, transceivers, and optical cable. This can be effective, but is it necessary? It surely is expensive. (Again, BOTH need to use a separate Wireless-Access-Point.)

e. IMHO, for those newly setting up their network, I highly recommend all Pangea digital cables, the highest model only, available with a 30 day return. Give them a listen against the mega-buck cables or the cheapies you may be using and see what you think.

This post reveals that I make no changes in my system unless I have clearly defined a problem that needs a solution. I listen to music with my trained and experienced musician’s ears. Problems always surface when I get frustrated trying to parse more meaning out of the performance/sound. My system has been meticulously tweaked. When one first starts tweaking, the sonic changes are minute because there are still so many problems masking clarity. However, as you get to the end, each new tweak is a revelation/game-changer. They are harder to find but Oh!-so-rewarding. If I can find anything new I’ll report back.

This was a four year journey. I have learned a ton along the way. I hope it is helpful to someone else.

singingg

Showing 24 responses by singingg

@fredrik222

Your diagram did not load. I am most curious to look at it. Maybe you can answer my question: in an ethernet cable are the same wires always assigned to output and input, or are the duties randomly applied by equipment designers?

Thanks

Let me add my WOW to all the other Wow's. I did not realize the I was dropping a neutrino-bomb on the forum. I think the dust has settled sufficiently for me to respond.

 

First of all I am making no claims that necessitate belief. This is just my journey that I took, not by plan, but with open minded curiosity. Many times along the way I would question a tweak but always went ahead because “ you never know until you try.”

 

My original post is very long and contains much information. I spent many hours collating these experiences  and writing them into a literate article. Much time was spent in making the best word and grammar choices. However I am sure a professional editor could suggest many improvements to my writing.

 

In writing my first and last two paragraphs I tried to proceed with all humility. I do not expect anyone to believe me about any of the points discussed. As a matter of fact I would be chagrined if anyone did. The topics discussed are meant to be a stepping off point for your own experiments in your own system, when and if you feel the need and have the time and inclination to experiment. If not, I am sure you are happy where you are at, which is nothing I would ever judge. As stated, I only proceeded when I heard a potential problem that I thought had a solution. I was rewarded many times and learned a lot. I am still going to stick with the $15 ethernet switch, as I have not yet heard a reason to replace it.

 

Here is an informal outline of the topics discussed in my original post. I spent more time discussing some because they are still new ideas to the community. Many may find it helpful to print out my OP and reread it at your leisure because of the density of ideas. That will allow you to use it as a guide over time and to make notes as you experiment:

 

Power supplies

Power cords brands and models

Optical conversion

Cable directionality

Ethernet cable brands and models

USB cable brands and models

Ethernet switches

Wifi/router and wifi access point

Passive filtration

Mechanical isolation

Cable elevation

Surge protection

 

If any of those topics are not in your “belief system” I am not going to psychoanalyze you. I do not find any of these tweaks to be fringe or controversial because I have done the work. It is up to you to investigate when you are ready. Please do your own due diligence.

 

Let us take one example. Every network has at least one ethernet cable. How hard is it to unclick both ends and reverse it while listening critically and while sober? Do it a couple of times. If you hear some difference then you learned something, if not, then be happy where you are! For heavens sake, don’t be too lazy to try!!  

 

Here is tweaking story. Around 2000 I learned about the “fanatical” art of tweaking through Jonathan Scull’s excellent column in Stereophile  Fine Tunes. I read that first when a new issue arrive and tried all of the suggestions. It was suggested that an audio grade outlet mattered. Well I found the $50 at the time, swallowed and placed the order. Still highly skeptical, I installed it, and since I was just beginning to seriously tweak my very good system, I heard just the most minor improvement that can be heard. I shrugged and kept it in my system. A couple of years later I was investigating plugging various amps and other components directly into the wall. I needed more outlets, so I had to remove the audio outlet and temporarily hard wired a star wired outlet box to complete my experiments. When I completed the study, along with many other enhancing tweaks, I realized I could go back to the audio outlet. This time there was a jaw dropping day-and-night difference because all my improvements had lifted so many veils. The difference was the same both times but much more discernible the second. Live and learn!

 

One last point. My hopefully completely tweaked streaming network is incorporated into my equally fully tweaked amplification system in my fully tweaked room. (yes that took a lot of meds and a couple of bottles of single malt, chuckle) The synergy has made my system sound like a million bucks. I/me/myself are happy where we am!

 

 I don’t want to go back to 1968 when one plugged the captive generic PC of the receiver into the most convenient ungrounded outlet, used the red and white tin plated IC supplied with the turntable and tape deck, and using the zip-cord wire to the speakers that the dealer threw into the package @ 5 cents/foot ( How many feet do you need? No charge!) Oh, those were the days, not like the civilized times we now live in. My current system now sounds a little more refined, I think.

 

Let me reiterate : You either do or you don’t, or you are too lazy to try. I will not be further baited on the subject. Have a nice day.

Time to catch up. Let’s address a few points as best as we can.

 

  1. The subject that has everyone’s knickers in a bunch is ethernet cable direction. Since I stumbled onto the topic and confirmed it for myself I have continued to think about it. Of course the bottom line is I don’t need to understand what I perceive with my hearing, but we all are ultimately unsatisfied with an unanswered WHY .

 

Yes, tipping my hat to all IT professionals, ethernet cables are bi-directional by design. Here is where I will get into my theory and it is only a theory because I DO NOT KNOW. When streaming music, do we listen to both transmissions to and fro? I think not. I reported I found the most significant sonic change reversing the ethernet cable going into my i5 Transporter server which is sending requests out to the web for files and directing them to my renderer. I further postulate that excellent cable manufacturers are fully aware of the surface anomalies that occur in drawing metal through dies to make wire, which creates directionality. I speculate in designing a bi-directional cable they will run the wires two different directions for incoming and outgoing signals. This may be incorrect as the wires may be assigned duty randomly by the equipment designers. I defer to someone that knows that answer. Never-the-less, we only LISTEN to the INCOMING FILES and when we get that wire positioned correctly there will be sonic benefits. That is my theory and I open it to civil discussion for all to learn.

 

  1. Several suggested that I buy some really expensive equipment and save time and trouble because throwing money at a problem is the solution to the problem. I have generally, with a couple of exceptions (front ends and speakers which I bought for the long haul), spent only what I needed to get me where I wanted to exist. I assure you that Small Green Computer, Pangea cables, Supra cables, and my beloved $15 switch with the $110 PS (don’t you just love it?) are doing the job to the highest standards and have taken me THERE (see 3 below). Small Green Computer has had the philosophy of separating the server from the render as the easiest solution to myriad problems. I bought into that, and since I am heavily divested in my tweaked network, I shall keep it in my end-game system. As to clutter, this separating of duties only requires me to buy one extra power supply, another PC, and another ethernet cable. Everything is now as tidy as can be on my 10 equipment shelves with my amplification and other front ends. The biggest challenge was routing the cables for best performance.

 

  1. Where is THERE?

 

No one seems to have gotten the reason I posted this thread at this time. I apologize for its necessary complexity and leaving the conclusion to the end (where else do you put it?). It takes a couple of readings to digest and comprehend what the article is ultimately about. It is not about being an obsessive OCD gear-head. It is about a journey into the unknown towards a specific goal: PARITY. I think I achieved that, and publishing and breaking out the champagne is my way of celebrating.

 

Let me put this in some perspective.

 

With the advent of silver discs the debates began and still rage. Which format sounds better, LPs or CDs? Phonographs had the head start and the technology was very mature, so LPs definitely held the advantage. CD players had a lot of research and tweaking to do to reach parity. When we bring these competing technologies into our rooms and systems we have further tweaking to do to achieve absolute parity, bordering on the obsessive. Someone who has done it knows the rewards. The formats will never sound the same, but they can be equally satisfying.

 

With streaming we have a third format competing for sonic dominance. It has the ultimate advantage of HI-RES files to take the lead. However, I will never abandon my physical mediums of 6000 LPs and 4000 silver discs. I own them and if all else fails I will have something to listen to. They serve as a reference as to where I stand in getting the new technology to compete with the established formats, and they still just sound wonderful. How do you know when you are THERE? We are very fortunate this time around to have an “apples to apples” direct comparison of CD playback verses 16/44.1 files into the same DAC. As streaming is a fledgling technology, it again takes seemingly obsessive tweaking to achieve that end, but probably just as equally obsessive as the beloved and finicky vinyl playback.

 

As I poke my head back out the rabbit hole, glass of champagne in hand, I salute all with a hearty “CHEERS.” I accomplished my goal for now, but I will keep my ears out for an unturned stone that may need to be pursued.

@cleeds

@audphile1  No foul. However if my 16/44.1 streaming matches the sound quality of my silver disc player, I'll see you at the dragstrip. Best of 3?

@audphile1  

 I have no doubt that was the case. My silver disc player is an Esoteric, which I highly recommend.

Many thanks to @fredrik222. Your input was most welcome and informative!

In an ethernet cable the wires and pins have an assigned duty. If you are designing an audiophile cable that will sound better, you have to take wire directionality into account in the layout. I postulate that is why in my testing the ethernet cables with audiophile credentials outperformed generic cables. It is easy to imagine how this could impact sound quality, especially on the receive wires! +1 for ethernet directionality!

@audphile1 Let me tell you a story. When I was nearing the end of tweaking my network for parity there was a moment when streaming surpassed CD sound ever so subtly. I immediately stopped and squinted at my system. Should this be? What needs to change? I decided to reverse the coaxial cable from my disc player to my DAC and CD again regained supremacy by a little. From there I went on to achieve parity. In the process I elevated both formats. This is one of benefits of serious tweaking. When you found you had difficulty getting CD to match streaming, I think you missed an opportunity to learn some interesting things about your system and music. Parity is a real standard and hard to achieve.

@lalitk

“I will keep my ears out for an unturned stone that may need to be pursued.”
Thought you’re open to learning and improving….maybe not!

I am sorry my writing was too poetic for your comprehension. Stated more literally: Not all hypothesis lead to scientific discovery.

Daily Gibberish from singingg

@fynnegan Hello sir. Yes the Bridge recording of the Eliott Carter Horn Concerto is a masterpiece. When doing the cable testing I got to listen to it many times and often let it play through because it is so good. I have been a Carter fan since the early 70s when I was in music school, the same time I discovered Varese. I soon branched out into a complete exploration of all the composers who were themselves exploring advanced personal musical languages. I regularly pull out those LPs for a trip down memory lane.

@tonywinga Hello sir. I am so glad you are posting on this thread because I know you to to have an open mind and have been willing to test tweaks. Thanks for "covering my back " several times so far. Much appreciated. You were recently unkindly attacked and I condemn that. What I found interesting in your last post is that you removed the optical filter and achieved a similar result I reported in 9) of my OP. When you are hearing well I suggest you try the Parity Test with 16/44.1 material that you trust. It may tell you that you are finished or suggest further pathways. LOL

The last tweak that I installed in my system was the three iFi passive filters. Last night I removed them for a listen and after a short time they were quickly reinstalled. They are keepers. It would be interesting to compare the strategic placement of these filters at various network points vs. one uber-expensive filter at one point vs filtering inside the switch vs optical filtering. Maybe someone has the curiosity and opportunity to test some of these and report back. That would take some time and effort.

I find it ironic that the posters that stand behind their scientific educations are unwilling to practice science: hypothesize, test, and draw and report conclusions. It is very tiring to endure their opinions when it would be most helpful if they could verify others experiments and conclusions.

I spent the morning listening to Havergal Brian Symphony No. 1 "Gothic", Lenard conducting massive forces that greatly exceed Mahler "Symphony of a Thousand." Marco Polo captured the space of Czechoslovak Radio (Bratislava) in stunning detail with sound-stage depth, pinpoint spatial cues and clarity, and massive dynamics. I recommend this as a system test with the benefit of the glorious music that is better than Mahler’s worst symphony. It even sounded good on my system with (according to some) cheap gear.

Cheers!

@mahgister

As usual, you have a way of bringing a larger perspective with its concomitant breath of fresh air! Thank you, sir.

I was not clear. IMHO the worst Mahler symphony is no.2. That does not mean you are not allowed to love it.

Daily Gibberish of singingg

 

Today there are a couple of topics I want to address, and unfortunately, a couple that I do not. Onward.

 

  1. The recording that I used in the ethernet cable tests (yes, I actually did testing on my own time, 10 and 11 in the OP) was Eliott Carter “Horn Concerto” on Bridge, Qobuz 16/44.1. Its great drama and busy polyphony was instrumental, pun intended, in helping me to draw conclusions. Since the testing took weeks I listened to it many times and became totally familiar with its sound, and gave me certainty when drawing conclusions.

 

Last night I thought I would revisit that old friend for pleasure. I hit play and was astounded at the improvement in the SQ of my system. The solo horn was in my room, seemingly THERE. The layering of the orchestra was vastly clearer revealing a myriad of subtle previously hidden details which abound in Carter’s art, and the timbre of the Gestalt was a joy. What had changed? Simply steps 12,13,14 in the OP, all which are easy to implement. This was more confirmation of the correctness of my journey than I could have expected. Today I am still emotionally vibrating from the experience.  

 

  1. Analogue and Digital Parity

 

Recently I wanted to revisit my recordings of Bruckner symphonies on LP. Symphony No. 2, Haitink, Concertgebouw on Philips caught my attention. I did not remember when I purchased it, but putting it on my stereo table I was enthralled with the beauty of the  performance and at the accomplishments of the recording and mastering and pressing engineers. I have heard this symphony live twice in Cleveland’s magnificent hall conducted by Dohnanyi and by Welser-Most. I simply heard details that I could not hear live nor on the half-dozen or so CD versions I own and cherish. This is a truly reference recording. Let’s do some comparisons.

 

Haitink recorded the Bruckner symphonies in their entirety for the first time in the 70’s on analog tape. On LP I own 0,1,2,7 & 8. On CD I own 4 which I abandoned to my shelves as bad CD sound affording no joy. I checked Qobuz and they have the complete set lovingly transferred to 24/96. The sound of 4 was the worst of the set, both on CD and streaming. It was probably an early recording or a different engineering team. Just a sonic flop. However, comparing the stream of 2 to the LP, the sound was a joyous match, PARITY. This is as close to an “apples to apples” comparison as one is as likely to find. I am now satisfied.

 

  1. More on the Journey to Parity

 

When I started to set up my end-game system five or six years ago, I knew some of my excellent-in-the-day components were tired and technology had marched on. My plan has always been to set up a very satisfying system and use it for 20-30 years and update it as time and circumstances dictate and allow. This time I had two additional objectives: keep as many of the costly front ends as possible and only replace them if there is catastrophic failure; and to set up a streaming network for the first time. As I worked my way week by week I came to realize I was going to tweak-until-I-dropped trying to achieve PARITY.

 

At the start of the journey my silver disc player was my standard for the best sound, second were LPs, and third was streaming of which I knew next to nothing except what my ears told me.

 

I will not regale you or anyone with my journey through 5 preamps, 2 amps, 4 DACs, ALL THINGS POWER, mechanical isolation, and cables. I was doing that while tweaking my streaming, the recounting of which brought most to teary-eyed distress. Ah, but life is a journey. I’ll let you know how merciful I am because I did not regale you with all the dead-ends that did not bear a conclusion in my OP!

 

It may interest some how I tweaked my analogue setup. I have two excellent tables that have been on Stereophile’s class B list and gushed about by TAS in their way. I set one up for mono and the other table for stereo. Both got new cartridges, new phono-stages, motor controllers with LPS and PC, and serious mechanical isolation. In addition the mono had to have the motor replaced. All this resulted in sweet analog bliss.

 

Replacing and tweaking all these not only brought my system to parity, but I was able to raise the standard of performance of my of the silver disc player and all other components in my system. A rising tide floats all boats. Through all these experiences I certainly gained knowledge, some further understanding, and maybe a thimble-full of wisdom.

 

  1. This thread has now become infected by the lazy, close-minded, and dogmatic shouting others down with a shrill sound akin to a chastised and whipped puppy. Those who do not want to learn simply will not ( I was a teacher for 45 years). Further psycho-analysis is futile. Please reread my post:

 

08-09-2023 at 11:29am

 

CHEERS!

 

 

 

Daily Gibberish from singinng

 

1. Last night I was working my way through Haitink / Bruckner Symphony 6 / 24-96 files from analogue tape on Qobuz. As I concluding the symphony I thought that that sounded familiar. I went to my LP racks and sure enough the spine had receded form view. I immediately put it on my stereo turntable for comparison and was greeted with the most lovely analogue sound possible. But, and it is a very big BUT, a few phrases into the performance it was clear the mastering engineers had severely constricted the dynamic range to fit the music comfortably into the groove to match the technology of 1970’s turntables. The result was a constriction of the palpable excitement of the performance. Lovely though it sounds I will probably never listen to it again. This is one reason among many that caused classical music lovers to abandon the LP medium as quickly as possible and permanently. I have many wonderful LPs form the 60’s and 70’s but a very large portion have a reason to prefer a digitized version. Ironically, in the early 1980’s LP pressing quality was achieving master tape quality and I bought as many LP remainders as I could find that fit into my collection as the new CD format pulled the rug from under analogue. Jazz and pop remain the preferred candidates for analog reissue.

2.Small Green Computer has issued a new OS version 2.9 for their Rendu players. Mine arrived on Mon, for free for sharing these posts with you. The instructions were simple, but ultimately too simple, for removing the elderly scan disc and replacing it with the new version. Now I love computers when they do what I want them to do and when I want them to do it. An hour and a half after installing the new OS I still could not get any music to play. I found I had to upload and install Squeezebox Lite into the software. I tried all sorts of rebooting etc. All to no avail. So I tried to but the old disc back in and it would not work. I shut it down, inserted the new OS, and said that tomorrow’s another day. The next day I turned the system on, pressed play and was greeted with music. It worked! What can I say? I had planned to go back and forth to listen critically for differences, but since I got the new version working I am not touching it.

I started playing from my favorites and things were different. In these posts I have run the gamut of audiophile descriptors to death. I do not know how professional reviewers keep going. The newness was subtle but definite and I am going to use a new word for me: INTELLIGIBILITY. Both vocal lyrics and instrumental timbres have new vividness and MEANING. Also the sound-stage is much more removed from the speakers with a feeling of completeness. Good work SGC!

3.Paul McGowan has a new video on PARITY. I’ll let him share his experience to broaden this post.

https://www.psaudio.com/blogs/ask-paul/cd-vs-streaming-quality

CHEERS!

@kennyc  Thanks for your comments. I spent another evening with the upgrade and sat there completely slack-jawed at the fundamental beauty of the musical presentation. For me to listen to Sgt Peppers for the zillionth time and get new understanding of the lyrics is just a joy. It arrived at the most serendipitous time: when I had just finished tweaking my system to reveal everything. If anyone who gets the OS upgrade does not hear its real sonic benefits, you have some tweaking to do.

Daily Gibberish from singingg

 

While the battles raged last evening I decided to visit the “Fool on the Hill.”

 

Day after day, alone on a hill
The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still
But nobody wants to know him, they can see that he's just a fool
And he never gives an answer

But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world spinning around

Well on the way, head in a cloud
The man of a thousand voices talking perfectly loud
But nobody ever hears him or the sound he appears to make
And he never seems to notice

But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world spinning 'round

And nobody seems to like him, they can tell what he wants to do
And he never shows his feelings

But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world spinning 'round (oh oh oh)
'Round and 'round and 'round and 'round and 'round

And he never listens to them, he knows that they're the fools
They don't like him

The fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world spinning 'round

Oh ('round and 'round and 'round and 'round)
Oh

 

We decided to listen on his well tweaked system to Copland “Billy the Kid.” It is a  story about how the bad guy gets killed in the end and everyone lives happily ever after. What could be better than that? Well this:

 

My front doorbell rang and I greeted my audiophile friend who had ridden the quarter mile to my place on his bicycle. We have known each other for 40 years and have shared much as we upgraded and tweaked systems. He is also an amateur recording engineer who makes recordings of a local classical concert series. My standard review when I go to his place to hear his latest work is, “Another fantastic recording by M!” They are on a par with the best.

 

It had been a while since his last visit and he came over to hear all the little tweaks I had been implementing. I gave him the tour. Time to listen : Qobuz, Gomalan Brass Quintet - Gomalanshort, Tango. We finished listening and I started to talk about the music. He interrupted me and said, ”That sounded FANTASTIC!” I was flabbergasted because we are always polite and say very nice things about each others systems, but never go overboard. This was a first. We finished the enjoyable hour listening to Nat King Cole and Natalie Cole sing for us. He left into the night muttering out loud how fantastic it sounded. Maybe I have finally convinced him to dive into streaming. His eyes keep getting bigger! (chuckle)

Daily gibberish of singingg 6

 

Now that we have fought WW III & IV on this thread, I hope we can stop feeding the troll and refrain from further psycho-analysis, and get back to the discussion of the OP.

 

  1. Here is another input about PARITY from Michael Lavorgna:

 

Review: Technics SL-G700M2 Network/SACD Player

https://twitteringmachines.com/review-technics-sl-g700m2-network-sacd-player/

 

It is not easily achievable but well worth pursuing for the sonic rewards and the education of the journey. You can see many have not faced the challenge head on yet.

 

 

Now folks, I as a layman, am going to jump into the weeds and try to discuss a couple of issues, both of which have become conflated, and have been plaguing everyone. I invite polite constructive discussion. I am way less than an expert and just want to learn.

 

 

  1. My final statement on ethernet cables. Cable Bidirectionality by Design vs. Efficiency of Signal Propagation=Signal Directionality. Take a look at the diagram: 

A. Ethernet cables need a two-way communication accomplish their task. This is easily seen in the diagram. The green wires on pins 1& 2 always Transmit, and the orange wires on pins 3 & 6 always Receive. If you reverse the direction of the wire, pin 1 will always connect to pin 1. The design is for bidirectional communication.

 

  1. Since all the wires in the cable are metal, whether copper or silver plated copper or pure silver, they have been drawn through dies creating surface anomalies and therefore exhibit better signal propagation in one direction verses the other. This is established fact. (I am sure a simple search can pull up numerous studies.)

 

Now say we are transmitting music from a switch to a renderer and the signal is traveling from left to right in the diagram, if the green wires direction are aligned with the signal direction, then it MAY sound better. We then test the sound of the resulting music comparing one direction to the other. I have done this and reported the results in the OP. Now it is your turn to test and report. (How to align the other wires for the ultimate design, I leave to the engineers.) In conclusion, don’t equate bidirectionaliy with directionality.

 

  1. The topic of the sound of ethernet switches continues. I think an intellectual error has been made and continues to be propagated in conflating the sound of a simple switch (doing its switching) vs using a switch as as a device to solve the bugaboo of ethernet noise (or other issues).

 

It took me a long time to finally identify and quantify the destructive nature of said noise (13 in the OP). In fact, I published a post entitled “The Myth of Ethernet Noise,” which I have withdrawn. I have tried to keep the switch simple ($15, believe it or not, and my streaming is sounding A+ with this device). The only switch upgrade was a high quality PS which really enhanced its performance through giving it the energy it needed. It has been my approach to find the actual source of the signal degeneration and creatively find its solution there. This is not stated to ruffle any feathers, because I am as aware as any of the myriad design choices and solutions for setting up a network/system. Just become aware that you are asking the switch to switch and solve other issues that may be best addressed elsewhere, OR NOT, depending on YOUR SYSTEM DESIGN APPROACH and WHAT YOUR EXPERIMENTAION LEADS YOU TO CONCLUDE.

 

To take one example:

 

When people replace switch X with switch Y “that does more things,” and then conflate, they say that switch Y sounds better than switch X. However, with pinpointing, the actual issue might be with the router spilling noise. Is it better to address the noise at the router with passive or optical filtration, or let the switch at the next junction down the road deal with it in its way? Are both points equally successful at addressing the issue, or is one better than the other? You have to experiment and make these design choices for your system. So does switch Y sound better than switch X when it is switching?

 

I have not yet found that switches sound different if well powered. However, that could change at any time if I HEAR something that jolts me awake.

 

CHEERS!

Daily Gibberish from singingg

Well folks, I have had my say (I thought he would never shut up!). I wish to thank all who contributed thoughtfully and positively to the discussion. I also wish to thank the moderators who protected me from the stone throwers. I hope you get better at identifying trolls as they had a very negative impact on the civility of this thread.

I am going to list my pertinent contributions throughout this thread so someone can jump over all the negativity and get the substance. In doing this I want to reiterate that I do not want anyone to believe me concerning anything discussed. I am not looking for disciples. Think about your network/system and use my experience for your own testing. Continue to train your listening skills. It is a lifetime journey with much to learn.

Original Post at the top of every page (print out a copy for reference)

Ahh, I feel so much better now that I have made myself comfortable, a placebo here, a placebo there.

Notice the One Trick Pony will not listen to some music of his choosing (30 seconds) walk across his room (1 second to stand up and 3-5 sec to walk) grab an ethernet cable and reverse it (2 seconds from his life) reseat himself and pickup his remote (5-7 sec) and replay the track (30 sec) and think what he has heard, and if nothing, redo the experiment several times ( 1min 12 sec a pop) to make sure of his perceptions. Screaming and shouting is so much easier on everyone.

Daily Gibberish from singing

Placebo Effect, Expectation Bias, Faulty Science, and other Human Failings

This was discussed in the OP and in subsequent posts.

I have guarded against these issues with a simple follow-up test. After implementing a tweak and having deemed it to have a positive effect, sometime down the road I will reverse the implemented change. It is most illuminating to almost forget about it for a while, and then one day remember that that was something I needed to do. Your mind is clearest at that moment.

The only things I ever took out were:

1. The optical filter that I initially "aped" because I had zero experience at the time with anything network.. When I found it to constrict dynamics and color the upper harmonics out it went.

2. My favorite mechanical isolation utilizes hockey pucks, initially one between component and shelf, and then stacks of two HP was discovered by accident. When I was starting to accumulate a fair number of small boxes I tried folded rugs and they sounded better than sitting directly on the shelf. I however tried a small phono preamp on two hockey pucks and was surprised how much it out performed the rug. In the OP when I got to 13) all the devices around my router were small so I purchased another rug and cut it to fit the devices. It sounded better and I was happy. The next day I noticed I had a bag of HP sitting unused and replaced the rugs with them. I was astounded on how much the HP outperformed the rugs. I then went back to my system and and replaced the remaining folded rugs with HP for a definite improvement. I still have two rugs in my system that I can find no way around. They are doing good and certainly no harm.

Everything else passed the second scrutiny and were keepers.

Ah, now I have cornered the "(*&%scientist%&*)" with the tin foil hat. This is his scientific reporting: 

"I have done this, and I certainly hear no difference. I have also tried various Ethernet switches. Second, not screaming and shouting, I leave that to the fanatics who don’t understand the technology."

End of quote.

Well sir, what have you done and tried? What were your methods? What devices and models were used in your experiments? What music did you LISTEN to? Did you proceed with an open mind exploring a hypothesis, or just to confirm what you already "knew?" How much time have you spent on reviewing your conclusions and how much effort have you expended in communicating your findings?

Sincerity is a necessary element in science and communication. Insincerity is always exposed in the end.

Another point: In posting my experiments, I am just communicating my experiences, however truthful or flawed they may be. They were conducted for me, in my room, and on my system, because I love music that is well produced. I humbly state that I never would have dreamed of achieving the quality of music reproduction that I am now experiencing. I have stated over and over not to believe me on any point. Use what I have SINCERELY communicated as a stepping stone for your own PERSONAL JOURNEY. So, what ever errors I have committed are mine to discover as time goes on (and with the help of others). If I can keep an open mind I will find them.

I posted it on this site because, among all the weeds, there is a rich community of fellow music lovers and hobbyists hungry for information.

 

Daily Gibberish from singingg

1) I have had issues with my Small Green Computer ultraRendu disconnecting while playing music. I contacted Andrew at SMG and he had me send it in for inspection.

Fortunately nothing was wrong with the renderer and the conversation came around to power supplies. They have a new model for their renders that is a 25W LPS vs. the old 15W LPS. Since I know that ALL THINGS POWER is the rule, I ordered one, installed it, and A/B the two. The new one gives a nice step-up in intelligibility! If you have the old one give this upgrade some serious consideration. It has increased my streaming joy.

2) In my OP #10) I took a deep dive into ethernet cables and I discovered and wrote:

"Third, I reversed Pangea (ethernet cable) between switch and Transporter i5 resulting in severe sonic degradation. Back to the way it was originally."

The nagging question I have been living with is, why did this cable interface sound twice as bad when reversed compared to all the others?

I realized that I had no way of knowing the path of the music from Qobuz to my DAC:

Diagram 1: Switch > ethernet cable > Transporter i5.

same Switch > ultraRendu > DAC.

 

Was the music going Path A: Qobuz > i5 > uR > DAC or,

Path B: Qobuz > uR > DAC?

Andrew from SMG told me that the path depends on the software being used. I am using Squeezebox. He said then it is path A, which means that the highlighted cable in diagram 1 is the only ethernet cable in my network that carries the listened-to stream in both directions! Therefore, my conclusion in this instance is that in a properly designed cable that takes directionality into account, sonic degradation would double when installed backwards.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT: ETHERNET CABLE DIRECTIONALITY IS REAL IN MY WORLD: THE HORNETS NEST HAS BEEN STIRRED!

@mtbiker29  Sounds like you are ready to take the deep dive into the sound of your network. I hope your listening skills are up to the task. Best of luck, fantastic sound awaits!