I have perfected my network for the nth time


This is the complete summation of my efforts to optimize my network for streaming music. I started out with a combination of wired ethernet and fiber optic and ended with a completely wired network with passive filtration. This article represents only one of the myriad ways that exist to set up a network around myriad component choices. Your network will be a variation on mine as all systems are ultimately unique. It also represents a “no stone unturned” effort around the realization that “everything matters.” As such, I hope it will be a reference to those newly starting out, or to those currently in the process of searching for the best sound.

Let me humbly share my journey of tweaking my streaming network that I built around a Small Green Computer bundle. Back when I initially set up this configuration I modeled it exactly after Michael Lavorgna’s recommendations, now of Twittering Machines. It was stated that wired ethernet contains a multitude of music destroying noises that must be dealt with. Who was I to argue. At the time I didn’t even know what an ethernet switch was (a free- lance musician and private music teacher leading a sheltered existence) .

The bold type face in the following diagrams indicate elements that will be changed and explained as you progress through the text:

FO through wall > ONT,smps > 8tac tenrehte > router,smps > cat 8 > $15 switch,smps > cat 8 > i5 Transporter,smps.

Same switch > cat 8 > FMC,smps > Fiber optic > FMC,smps > cat 8 > ultraRendu with LPS > Pangea Audio Premier SE MKII USB Cable > Benchmark DAC3B.

I had completely solved all power problems in my system to achieve a superior black background. The above still had grunge :

1. I added a LPS with a Y adapter to power both FMC = better

2. I added a LPS to the Transporter = better

3. I replaced the LPS power chords with Pangea Audio AC-14SE MkII = better

4. I wrapped my fiber optical cable in bubble wrap. It seems they are sensitive to vibrations. = better

5. I replaced the 3 post switch cat8 ethernet cables with Pangea Premier SE = way way way better, but STILL some remaining niggly grunge!

6. I had not bought into the $700-$10,000+ ethernet switch mania. I had bought my $15 plastic covered switch from Home Depot. I did try a more expensive switch and sent it back because I could hear no improvement. I rewired post switch and removed the FMCs. LISTENED. Then I added the FMCs back in. They were definitely improving the sound, by a lot!

I ordered a iFi iPower X Ultra Low Noise AC/DC Power Supply for the switch. I took out the FMCs again and installed the new PS. WHAM!! The sound came into complete focus. I reinstalled the FMCs and now a huge amount of grunge had disappeared.

7. The new Pangea Audio Premier XL MKII USB Cable came on the market, which separates out the 5v current wire from the signal wires. Because my Benchmark DAC was using the 5v current, I replaced my previous Pangea Audio Premier SE MKII USB Cable (same wire and connectors) and wiped another smear of noise from the window. This is the single biggest improvement of all these suggestions.

8. Shutting the WIFI off in my primary router and using a wireless access point to regain WIFI for the house. It has resulted principally in opening up the sound-stage : width, depth, with clearer separation. This was the elephant masking the remaining network problems. I subsequently had to go back into my router when I realized I also had to disable the broadcasting of the router name and also disable the WAN feature to get the complete quiet I was looking for. The result was truly  startling.

9. I lived with this WIFI tweak for two weeks and I gradually became aware of a persistent coloration that I eventually came to realize was masking the harmonic structure of the music. Once I defined the problem there was no ignoring it. The problem had to be solved.

I started digesting the suggestions in this thread for optimizing an optical filter as I watched the $$$ mount while listing things to buy. I remembered that Mr. Lavorgna moved on by replacing his optical filter with a GigaFOIL. I found a thread on this very subject from that time period. Some level-headed fellow suggested removing the filter for a listen before proceeding. He had become unconvinced of the need for filtering. It was simple to connect an ethernet cable directly from my switch to the Sonore ultraRendu. I pushed play on Qobuz not knowing what to expect. Not only was the coloration banished, but the musicians exploded into the room, the result of expanded dynamic freedom . I was sitting there like a one-year-old that had seen his first Jack-in-the-Box! I stayed up late last evening listening to favorites with profound new revelations at every turn of phrase.

I decided to redo the test I had done previously comparing Dudamel conducting Ives Symphony 2 : Qobuz 24/96 vs CD 16/44.1. The first time I reported that they sounded identical. Now they did not. The Qobuz sounded like a SACD and the CD sounded like a CD, which is how it should sound when comparing different resolutions. The CD sounded like the colored generic-optical stream and the all-wired stream of Qobuz sounded much more open and revealing of a multitude of detail.

My network is now simplified being all wired ethernet with no optical:

FO through wall > ONT,smps > 8tac tenrehte > router,smps > cat 8 > $15 switch with iFi PS > Pangea ethernet > i5 Transporter with LPS

Same switch > Pangea ethernet > ultraRendu with LPS > Pangea Audio Premier XL MKII USB Cable > Benchmark DAC3B.

 

10. Let’s do some testing. I stumbled on this looking for other advice. It was reported that the ethernet cable direction makes a difference. My findings: definitely!!!!!

Test piece : Qobuz stream 16/44.1 : Elliott Carter "Horn Concerto" which is a highly detailed and dramatic work sure to reveal any differences.

First, I reversed cat8 between ONT and router and a veil was removed!!

Second, I reversed Pangea ethernet between switch and Sonore ultraRendu, and I had it right the first time.

Third, I reversed Pangea between switch and Transporter i5 resulting in severe sonic degradation. Back to the way it was originally.

I don’t have the courage to reverse the 50’ cat8 running under my floor and suspended with cable ties, but extrapolating from what I heard, I think I got it right(grin).

Three out of four isn't bad, but that one reversal has taken things to a new level of dynamic freedom and sonic clarity.

I was grateful for this new discovery because it gave me a foundation to further explore ethernet cabling in my system. Initially I researched out an inexpensive Chinese brand of cat8 that had excellent published specs and just went with it. When I substituted Pangea cables post switch (Every component in my system has to be best value for the dollar, systematically synergistic, and musical sounding. No budget busting or retirement account draining devices allowed!) I got a nice jump in clarity and left it at that. Now, when I had just removed the optical filter from my network, I had an extra Pangea and decided to try it between my ONT and router.

This involved some work as the cable was short necessitating me moving my router much closer to the ONT. I removed the Ethernet cable whose direction had been determined, with a cable whose direction was not determined. I had to try it both ways and then go back and forth between cables a couple of times, and the Pangea won. The Chinese cable sounds wonderful but just a little smooth and a little less open on the top. This is subtle but clear to me, and the more open cable leads to less fatigue in longer listening sessions.

This suggests that the remaining 50' Chinese cable MAY need to be replaced and I ordered a 20m Supra cat8 and Linkup cat8.

11. Ladies and Gentlemen : the results of The Great Ethernet Cable Shootout. The contenders:

a. Pangea Premier SE cat8 26awg Cardas Grade One silver-coated copper, audiophile claims .6m (Audio Advisor)

b. Gigaware cat6 24awg 15m (Radio Shack)

c. Chinese No-name cat8 26awg 15m published specs (Amazon)

d. Linkup cat8 22awg 15m published specs (Amazon)

e. Supra cat8+ 26awg 20m audiophile claims, published specs (ebay)

All cables were individually listening tested for directionality. It was conclusively unanimous, all of the ethernet cables sounded better one way than the other. When installed backwards the principal result was a shrinking of the sound-stage. It seemed the longer the cable the more dramatic the effect. Since none of the cables had marked arrows, the chances of correct installation when testing a new cable was 50%, and that is what I achieved. With a little experience I could hear the narrow sound-stage in less than a minute. These results are corroborated in Audio Quests ethernet cable literature :

Directionality
All audio cables are directional. The correct direction is determined by listening to every batch of metal conductors used in every AudioQuest audio cable. Arrows are clearly marked on the connectors to ensure superior sound quality. For best results, have the arrow pointing in the direction of the flow of music. For example, NAS to Router, Router to Network Player.

After I had corrected the reversed cable in my network, and replaced the short Chinese cat8 with Pangea, the sonic improvements led me to suspect the 15m Chinese cat8 as a potential bottleneck in my network.

ONT > Pangea > router > WINNER of the Shootout > switch > Pangea > Sonore ultraRendu

A. I installed the Gigaware cat6 that I used when I first started to experiment with streaming years ago. The sound was horrible. It reduced the sound of $$$$ equipment to the sound of $$ equipment.

B. The Chinese cat8 was good sounding and I could get Qobuz 24/96 tracks to sound like SACD. When after weeks of reading this thread and working on my network I listened to silver discs again, I found a subtle difference which I felt I needed to pursue, leading to this test.

C. The Linkup cat8 is an industrial strength cable, unusually thick and stiff. My initial impression was it is going to need significant break in time. After 24 hours it sounded better but in no way settled. My impression was that it is a system dependent cable. I am pretty sure it will never be the right fit for me.

D. The SLAM-DUNK WINNER is SUPRA 8. When I dropped this into my system the instincts leading to this test were completely justified. Indeed, the Chinese cable was holding the sound hostage. The sound-stage opened to new unheard of width and depth. The dynamics were so free and the musicians were so present, I wondered why I could not smell their sweat. I did not think to look at my speakers because it was obvious there was no music was emanating from them!

Upon reflection there is a synergy between the Pangea and Supra, a perfect marriage. Each allow the other complete freedom to do its thing. Since I will never hear a complete loom of either Pangea or Supra, I cannot conjecture what they would sound like. I don’t care, because when you have found the love of your life, you will only confuse yourself or do harm by continuing to play the field.

There are so many other brands/models to choose from. Many of you have your favorites. For me the above setup is a cost-effective value-for-performance solution that I always search for.

While I was testing, it was easy to run each ethernet cable to my new wireless access point and stream music to my laptop > iFi usb filter > AudioQuest Dragonfly Red > headphones. In each case, the sonic signature of the cables described above was broadcast over WIFI. This suggests there is no free lunch and a quality cable is needed.

 

12. I gathered the pieces to replace the smps for my ISP ONT and router:

a. iFi elite 12v 4a PS

b. DC cable Y adapter 18awg

c. Pangea 14awg PC

d. Brickwall surge protector

The installation of them opened the soundstage to cavernous dimensions, brought unbelievable separation to complex music, and a wonderfully beautiful tonality.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I declare my network optimized!

 

  1. I am back. After getting through #12 above, I was a tired and worn out audiophile and needed to return to being a melomaniac, my chief feature. After three months of joyfully listening to music on LPs, silver discs, and Qobuz, the audiophile lights started to flash into my attention. I was listening to a CD of Brahm’s Symhony 2, Dohnanyi, Cleveland Orchestra on London. The performance was immersive and the sound was definably solid in audiophile terms. I wondered how it would compare to the streamed 16/44.1 version. Here we go down the rabbit hole. There was no favorable comparison. The streamed sound was bleached and the dynamics impeded. Could this be be the “ethernet noise” that I had so far been unable to quantify? Could I do a quick test on my hypothesis that did not use fiber optics?

 My network with possible filtration points: 1,2 etc.

ONT > cat 8 > (5) router (4) > cat 8 > $15 switch > cat 8 > (3) i5 Transporter

Same switch > cat 8 > (2) ultraRendu (1) > USB cable > DAC

I remembered that I had an iFi iSilencer USB noise filter that I had purchased to use with my Audio Quest Dragonfly Red DAC some years ago. I had considered trying it in the big rig several times but considered it unworthy due to prejudice (no one is immune). When I tried it in position 1 above there was a definite improvement. iFi has a new version called iFi iSilencer+, which I ordered and was rewarded with another big step in enhanced performance.

Was I done? I noticed iFi had an iFi LAN iSilencer in their catalogue. I reached out to Ifi support and asked what I could expect if I piggy-backed these in the same network. I got an immediate, thoroughly helpful, and cheerful reply stating I would probably experience “diminishing returns”, but you never really know until you try for yourself. Off went the order. I tried it in position 2 and it was not optimal to have two filters on the in and out of the same device. There was a slight but discernable squashing of the sound-stage. When I moved the LAN filter to position 3 I got a huge improvement that was additive. I moved it from position 3 to 4 and heard a new kind of good while sacrificing the previous good. I ordered a second LAN filter.

Trying LAN filters in positions 3 and 4 and the USB filter in position 1, I was rewarded with an other additive upgrade in performance! I moved one filter from position 4 to 5 and it just sounded wrong.  Back to 4 and I was done filtering for $250 plus tax and no new boxes, PS, PC, etc.

  1. While I was waiting for the various filters to arrive I realized I had not yet experimented with mechanical isolation with my router, PS, surge protector (12 above). I bought another bag of hockey pucks and used stacks of 2 under devices until they were stable and achieved another huge improvement! I also tested elevating the PCs and 20m Supra CAT 8+ ethernet cable from the floors around the router and in the listening room. I was rewarded again. DO IT!

When you are working on your network and pondering your progress, be sure to compare “apples to apples” or CD verses 16/44.1 as your principle test. When they match you have truly achieved something. There are many files on the streaming services that are not the same as the CD so you have to use your experience to make sure you are on the right track. I am now getting as close to equality comparing CD to streaming 16/44.1 as I am likely to get and have probably achieved parity. The improvements I have brought to CD level streaming have scaled nicely to higher resolution streams, opening up sonic vistas that were subtly masked before and now stunning to witness. After all, what is a direct comparison to these resolutions? My streaming has become a truly satisfying experience.

Ladies and Gentlemen, for the second time, I declare my network optimized (until the audiophile lights start flashing)!

 

Now I am going to jump into the weeds and try to draw some conclusions :

a. There are two (three) ways to skin this network cat : All wired or conversion to all optical, both can sound equally good, although I personally have not heard optimized optical. (In addition there probably are those who have optimized WIFI setups.)

b. I think another reason for my success with all wired ethernet is the installation of a whole-house surge protector. This not only has lowered the line voltage from 126v to around 122v, but also seriously lowered the electrical noise floor. This has benefits for a network being installed in multiple rooms and on different electrical legs.

c. I am sensing that before the WIFI tweak (ref 6 above), the optical filter could remove some, but not all of the upstream noise, suggesting a confirmation of the original poster’s assertion of signal damage. This could and should be investigated by someone with the right equipment and expertise. What happens to the square wave when subjected to intense RFI in these router combos?

d. Wired network optimization now consists of the tried and true audiophile tweaks of quality cabling, ALL THINGS POWER, mechanical isolation, and passive filtering. In addition optical network optimization needs the highest quality converters with additional LPS and PCs, transceivers, and optical cable. This can be effective, but is it necessary? It surely is expensive. (Again, BOTH need to use a separate Wireless-Access-Point.)

e. IMHO, for those newly setting up their network, I highly recommend all Pangea digital cables, the highest model only, available with a 30 day return. Give them a listen against the mega-buck cables or the cheapies you may be using and see what you think.

This post reveals that I make no changes in my system unless I have clearly defined a problem that needs a solution. I listen to music with my trained and experienced musician’s ears. Problems always surface when I get frustrated trying to parse more meaning out of the performance/sound. My system has been meticulously tweaked. When one first starts tweaking, the sonic changes are minute because there are still so many problems masking clarity. However, as you get to the end, each new tweak is a revelation/game-changer. They are harder to find but Oh!-so-rewarding. If I can find anything new I’ll report back.

This was a four year journey. I have learned a ton along the way. I hope it is helpful to someone else.

singingg

Showing 15 responses by mahgister

OP Keep your enthusiasm and sincerity...

The rest dont matter...

I did the same as you and limited minds associated my experiments with their successes and their limits to "tin foil hat"...

😊

 
 

 

 

It is measurable by many physical factors interdependencies into the equation; it is called "immersiveness" in acoustic and "listener enevelopment" ... It is all about acoustic is about...

I learned how to create it  to some degree in my small room...

There is even now a revolution in acoustic called the BACCH filters by Dr. CHoueiri that make this immersiveness a reality...

The one thing not discussed in this thread is the power of music. The appeal of music is to touch us and move us both spiritually and emotionally. I have had the experience not just in church or at a concert at times but even just walking down a sidewalk and hearing a musician playing a tune. Everything just seems to align- the mood, the experienced musician who knows well their art and craft and perhaps the acoustics. I experience it often with my stereo rig now. And yet I can hear the same song on another system and it leaves me flat. How does one measure that?

A single change cannot always be proved true or illusory ...

But repeated one in an incremental process cannot be illusory...

Illusion are in one piece , not a tapestry...

This is why experimenting is not the same as buying a "tweak" and calling it positive..

I dont trust any tweak but i trusted my set of experiments..

 I dont trust my ears , i trusted what they repeateadly said if i do an experiment  many times.. I call that learning how to hear... Like a musician must be trained , acoustician must be trained too...

An equation in acoustic  about the reverberation is there to be listen to... In acoustic "time" has a sound quality associated to it.. It is not a placebo or an illusion , it is an acquired biases...

Placebos work they are not deception nor illusions...They can be or they cannot be...

An incremental process of tuning by ears cannot be "placebos" and cannot be done with only negatives biases, you must learn how to correct your biases by experiments... basic acoustic...

There is other experiments but idiots will call me "tin foil hat" if i spoke about them... 😊

Placebo are related to biases which can be detrimental or creative if programmed or self programmed .. Biases are not only negative interfering factors but also self ACQUIRED abilities in training...

We must LEARN to hear and listen... And it does not apply only to babies...

We must learn how to see and how to look ... And it does not applies only to children..

Some will never learn nor hear ... Nor see... Because their biases is such for them that they already KNOW all there is to hear and see .. 😊

 

«You had never seen anything said the eagle to the mouse in his beak , now it is time to see before dying »--- Anonymus mouse half dead on the ground🐭

Most people believe sincerely that they know what is a "sound" and what is "hearing" and what information and qualities we SHOULD pick and which one we COULD NOT pick in the listening learning experience...

Especially if they had a degree in some science...

But elementary study in acoustic /psycho-acoustic debates illuminate the mysteries as deeper than we tought possible...

the modern imposed specialization in all science and industry after 1833 imposed also a ceiling above and under philosophical inquiries to limit their disastrous effects ... Then the specialist did not see or imagine anything passed his nose...He work for corporation and for profit not for truth...( think about medecine and arms race for example )

As religious minds of the past , he has the habit of not doubting anything coming from other  official fields CONSENSUS  into his field or around it and there is no more "mysteries" and even no new question emerging between specialized fields cracks and openings...There is only directed reearch programs and the necessary control to not interfere with them ...Tomorrow with A. I.

 

We must learn to hear and listen... Even with a science degree... 😊

😊

 

My system is low cost and very simple...😁 Half of people here had costlier system than me ....

But it is so well chosen and synergetical that  it is preposterous for me to upgrade it ... I tried today and it was useless and  i will return this top good  component ... 😊

My method is simple : there is three embeddings of an audio system : electrical, mechanical and acuostical... I work around these three embeddings problems with also some tweaks of mine...

Audiophile subjectivist or objectivist focus on the gear measures or brand named , i focus on synergetical components well embedded optimally in the mechanical, acoustical and electrical dimensions...

A low cost system is enough for me to reach minimal and even optimal acoustic satisfaction threshold... my guiding factor is the ratio S.Q. / price scale evaluated by objective acoustic factors defining the different aspects of 5the soundfield... We must learn how to listen , and listening 50 amplifiers, 50 heasdphones and 50 dac will never taught us how to listen... Experimenting with acoustic will taught us how to hear and how to listen...

i believe in acoustic and experiments thats all...

I dont believe in price tag.... Two of my components are TOP vintage flagship of the past .... And it is so good without being perfect , upgrading is hard and very costly...

 

For ethernet and streaming i had no experience and dont need it... Then i believe you on that... As i believe in the OP experiments ... I cannot be an arbiter and a referre here...

 

my best to you...

 

@mahgister i have seen your pictures and read about your system, and it is a very interesting approach. I have no idea about any theory behind any of what you have done, not my area of expertise. But I think that is a system worth listening to.

the point about the color is that it can’t matter, and without an understanding of Ethernet, TCP/IP and streaming, no one can understand why a switch or cable can’t matter in the way people say they do.

 

 

 

I understand your point...

But shungite is a mineral and is not a "color"... Anyway many will call me tin foil hat for using it as i used Schumann resonators grid in my room and ionization  with succeess at very very low cost  ...

The problem is the biases we all have, they are not the same biases; then calling people crazy is not a good idea in general...

that is my point...

For ethernet cable i had no idea i never try them with experiment ...

My best to you...

@mahgister no, defined by how Ethernet, TCP/IP, and streaming works. Has nothing to do with my education and experience, I did not design these protocols, I merely practice the a living.

The facts are that there is no theoretical improvement possible with any audiophile tweaks, and you have to have a solid understanding of how things work to understand that. And here is the problem, people without any relevant knowledge make fantastical claims of things that just cannot be true and it is easy to verify that is the case.

if I told you that if your speaker cable is green, all other things being equal, the sound quality would be superior, you would rightfully call me a fanatic and crazy. Not a perfect analogy but close enough.

You spoke about all the fanatics here... There is fanatics everywhere... It is not necessary when you come here to precise that there is some here of a specfic kind defined by you because you are engineer..

As an example you spoke about "experiments with a theoretical possibilities" ONLY and probably defined by your engineering dgree in software engineering..

But suppose as an experiment, i suggested to someone a fun experiment nowhere recommended  in engineering manual, but it is low cost and create a difference for my ears  ?

Suppose i use shungite on  some of my connectors....😊

Am i a "fanatic" or a "tin foil hat" ?

No need to consult Delphi oracle to know the answer you will give to me ..

In the meantime my 100 bucks small speakers with the right dac and some tweaks sound audiophile... am i a "fanatic " ?

 

You see it is not rational to call people fanatic because they try something for experiment which make no sense to you ...

I never bought any tweak by the way...😊

I trust acoustic science more... But i created my own tweaks homemade...

My best to you...

@mahgister fanatics because facts do not matter to them. If you want to put yourself in this group, that is up to you.

regarding the newbies, experiment is of course encouraged, but experiment with things that at least has a theoretical possibility of making a difference, and there is no theoretical improvement possible with Ethernet, because it is very very different from everything else.

At the end it is better to motivate people and listening to them BEFORE criticizing...

And  calling then names will not do...No one is enlightened here in all aspects of audio...

Only my two cents in a shorter post... 😊

Fascinating character you are!

The OP had tell us about his experiments, right or wrong, he cannot be wrong on all experiments he conducted no ?

Why calling him a fanatic ?

Am i a fanatic because i created my own homemade tweak experiment and used it with success for myself ?

Am i a fanatic because i respect each one set of experiments ?

Or am i a fanatic because you appear to me a bit fanatic and i said so ?

You want to put "doubts in newbies mind" about the fun to experiment instead of buying gear ?

You patronize everybody here, newbies included, because you are an engineer in software ?

And then you believe you know and only you what a sound is and what hearing is to add to your vast enlightened knowledge in audio and we are supposed to be cargo cult audiophiles ?

And we are fanatics ?

You make me smile by the mixing of arrogance and despise toward people here...

😊

"fictional improvement" .... Why fictional if there is a set of incremental improvements, as the like i lived through the last days with a cheap set of speakers ?

In modern life , we are all put in specialized works and fields; perhaps you dont know it but we are all ignorant in many fields yourself included ... I am pretty sure i am ignorant in software engineering , but i know for a fact that you are ignorant in other fields, ... Then be polite and dont patronize people calling them "fanatics"...

 

i am not looking to convince fanatics, I am looking put doubt in newbie minds about the need for these fictional improvements.

facts do not matter to fanatics, I am well aware of that.

 

 

 

Your post and sarcasm cannot hide the fact that you dont know at all what a " perceived sound" is... To understand this we need at least a theory of hearing...

You certyainly know that science had no accepted theory of hearing right now ? Only many competing theories...

You think that a sound is an "illusory" subjective quality with no basis in reality...The sound experience is not only and merely about the brain self delusion as you suggest ... It is not also  just about the wave medium ... It is a big more complex than that... I bet6 yoy did not read much about this...

The sound experience is about  hearing real  objective information coming from vibrating sound sources... More than that , the sound experience must be learned...It is not a mere placebo effect... Anyway you dont know what a placebo is either i can bet...

 

@mahgister nice try, however, the people with the made up theories are the ones with the tinfoil hats. And there are a lot of you on this forum.

@soix let me correct you, what you should have said “it is amazing how different the brain can interpret it’s surroundings”. Because that is the truth. No one hears with their ears, the brain interprets sound waves coming, based all sorts of biases, and that is where our hearing comes from. 

 

 

I just make my 100 bucks computer speakers very much better with acoustic in my audio corner in the basement... I used some old tweaks of mine too... ( my main audio system is only headphone because i lost my acoustic room selling my house )

What is better : claiming like the Pope that the truth is this and not that , or motivate people to try fun and practical experiments?

With 50,000 bucks speakers no one add cheap tweaks to make them better... But with bad sound low cost speakers v why not trying to improve them ?

It is possible to improve their potential and optimize them...Why mocking those who tried ?

This is an example of simple experiment with deep consequences :

«You are standing in a field looking at the stars. Your arms are resting freely at your side, and you see that the distant stars are not moving. Now start spinning. The stars are whirling around you and your arms are pulled away from your body. Why should your arms be pulled away when the stars are whirling? Why should they be dangling freely when the stars don’t move? »

Now why do you think such a seeming preposterous question /hypothesis/experiment could not have very deep scientific consequences ?

 

Do you think the audio world , with three perspecteive, three vocabulary involved, aidio engineering, music, acoustic and psycho-acoustic, cannot be experimented with simple experiments like the one above which illustrated the root of the Mach principle ?

Are you so sure you know what "a sound" is ?

I can assure you that you dont know what a sound is because science is in debate about "sound" right now , not only about competing theories about hearing but also about the nature of sound qualities themselves...

Why forbid anyone and mocking with any experiments if he do it to learn and for fun ?

Is it because you had the money to buy a 80,000 bucks system or is it because you dont like others to have fun in learning ? or is it simply by conditioned mass thinking about what is a recognized phenomenon and what it is not ?

 

I myself learned in audio mostly by experiments.... Half of what i learned by mass conditioned thinking is not true in audio...

 

It is 100% snake oil.

 

Who must put a tin foil hat on his head ?

Sleepwalkers with their dogmas or awaked experimenting people ?

By the way i never bought a "tweaks"... i created mine...

As i did yesterday with cheap speakers sounding now better...

I even used quartz... Will you mock me ?

I learned so much about acoustic and psycho-acoustic and with my homemade tweaks that i became now  a very bad consumers...I replace obsession with gear by basic knowledge...

I know there is no linear relation between audiophile sound experience and the price of gear...

I dont use streaming....

But i admire your determination and creative explorative mind...

I did the same in my acoustic room...

Dont bother with negative mind and less creative people...

The fun is not buying.... The fun is  to embed in the right way what we bought...

There is not a single piece of gear i did not modify in my own way...

 

Consumers mind dont get it....

Price means nothing in audio, anybody can buy a 50,000 bucks speakers.... Acoustic and the way we learn how to listen and use the ears as tools only matter...

There is three perspective and three vocabulary in audio not one : audio vocabulary centered on gear, music vocabulary centered on music concepts, and acoustic and psycho-acoustic vocabulary...

The three vocabulary and experience meet in some central perception as timbre...

If we dont experiment and did not optimize our audio system , we will never learn how these three perspectives meet together but keep their autonomous meanings...

Very useful thread and post thanks...

 I did not use streaming myself but others did...