I can't tell the difference

Thanks guys. If it wasn't an obvious typo my amp is a Primare. Traudio, have you done any blind tests with those DACs? I find it frustrating that most reviewers don't do this. It makes it really tough to figure where your money is best spent if you don't have the luxury of home demos or of purchasing so many different components. Thanks.

Thanks Al, I look forward to the reading.

Afranta, I'd say our systems are in the same ball-park budget wise. I'm back listening to the sb3's dac and it really does sound quite good. I guess I just had it in my head that a 300$ device with a ethernet card, wireless antenna, and other hardware besides the dac shouldn't be able to hold it's own vs a dedicated component.

I listen to mostly apple lossless files so I'd like to think there is more potential in there somewhere. But I suppose I should just stop worrying about it and enjoy the music. I'll be returning the v-dac.

Anyone have any thoughts on the Bel Canto DAC 2? I've seen it listed used in my price range. I know it is an older model, but I like it's simplicity -- I don't need a usb input, balanced outs, or anything else.

The V-DAC has about 40-50 hours on it. I have another couple weeks or so before I have to make a final decision on it, so I can give it a little while longer and do another blind test. My speakers are also very new so they may open up some also. I'm more willing to accept that the speakers will benefit from more time than I am the DAC, but I'll let my ears do the talking.

I'm pretty new around here so I'll try and keep an open mind. That said I'd like wade through the hifi voodoo at the same time. I'm also willing to accept that my system might not be revealing enough for me to pick up on certain things. I don't have the experience to know at this point.

Thanks for all the input.

@Rrog, I was expecting something and when I first plugged it in I convinced myself I heard it. But I later did a blind test and it was a wash. We were splitting hairs to decide which was "better" and then we ended up picking the sb3 half the time. I'm relatively new to this hobby but this will forever make me skeptical and a firm believer in confirmation bias. Show me the blind test results! :)

I know I heard a difference when I upgraded from B&W 601s to the CM5s and I know I heard a difference when I went from a Rega Brio to the Primare I21. The CM5s added a ton of detail and realism (instruments sounded more "correct"), and the Primare improved the presentation significantly -- sound stage was more focussed and notes seemed to be sustained for the correct amount of time, where the rega put more emphasis on the beginning of notes, but didn't seem to sustain things properly (especially noticeable with horns). I couldn't blind test these due to practical reasons, but the differences were too large to bother.

The DACs just literally sounded the same.

@Richard_Stacy Yes, it is getting fun! But also expensive, ha.

@Jult52 -- I was using an audioquest optilink-A and audioquest sidewinder RCAs with the v-dac. During the blind test I had a bargain bin RCA cable from the sb3 to the amp.

@jult52, could you point me to some documentation that describes how a cable could impact the spdif transmission? I'm no expert on the spdif protocol, but if it is anything like the TCP network protocol, there will be integrity checks built in on the sending and receiving side (transport and dac) that go a very long way to make sure what is sent is what is received. I'm very sceptical of the idea you could tell the difference between 2 properly functioning cables used for spdif transmission.

@jult52, I suppose the comparison to tcp isn't too valid as spdif won't be a two-way handshake. However, I'm still skeptical. In order for there to be a transmission error in the digital domain, the physical medium must be modified beyond a given threshold (voltage level or light measurement?) to have any impact. Yes it's technically possible, but if it's happening with any regularity I imagine the results would be painfully obvious, in which case you'd deem the cable defective. Using an optical cable would avoid the potential for surrounding electronics to impact the transmission, but based on error rates I've read in passing this likely does not matter either.

@Richard_stacy -- I agree our ears are the end-all-be-all. However, the laws of physics cannot be evaded. There has to be some logic to where we look for differences, no?

Have you done any blind tests with your digital interconnects? I'm very open to the possibility that I'm wrong here, but I'm one of those people that needs to understand why something works... maybe I'm in the wrong hobby :)