HT and 2 channel in same room? 1 or 2 systems?


Hi all, I wasn't exactly sure where to post this but hoping someone here may have some advice for me.  This dilemma has been stressing me a bit so would appreciate any advice.  I'll try to make this as concise as possible.

I have recently put together a multichannel system as do a lot of movies/PS5.  System is Onkyo RZ50 AVR, Klipsch RF7-iii, RC-64iii and RP-600 for surround.  I plan on adding in ATMOS speakers and some big DIY subs soon.

I have always wanted to get into 2 channel audio also.  I have a fairly big room, 21x28, so I have also purchased a 5 year old pair of La Scala II's a few weeks ago and I just had a Willsenton R300 tube integrated amp delivereda day or two ago.

I thought at first I would have 2 separate systems in the same space.  I started doing some research into how to add a sub to that tube amp and found out I can do this via high level inputs, however, for every 1 discussion that seems to like that idea, I find another discussion or two that says you really need RCA out/bass management to make everything fit together.

So..my dilemma is do I push forward with 2 separate systems?  I'll have to find a way to fit another pair of subs for the 2 channel system via high level.  But this way I'll be able to enjoy the La Scala's via tube (thru Bluesound Node streamer) which I have been really looking forward to and then have a whole separate HT for gaming/movies.

But.....more than a few people have suggested this might be way over-thinking and over-complicating this and that I should just listen to music thought my multi-channel setup and forget the 2 separate systems.  If I did this, I guess I would just sell the RF7's and just listen to everything through the La Scalas.  And then I'd only need 2 subs, which would be a plus but then also kind of lose the dream of having a tube setup for music.  However, I have more often than not done upgrades and not heard any difference so I'm kind of expecting this with the tubes, too.  I have alot of hard surfaces in this room, which I'm working on rectifying, but I am def worried that if I hook up this tube amp, its not going to sound any different to me than going via Pure Audio/Direct thru the AVR.

So plusses to keeping separate, I get to listen to tubes.  Plusses to going down to 1 system, I can consolidate and sell extra set of speakers, only need 1 set of subs, get to return the tube amp.  I'm just not sure if saying I have tubes is worth that or not.

Appreciate any advice anyone may have on this situation.

128x128johns21

Showing 11 responses by kota1

I have a SOA 9.2.7 home theater in a well treated room with active speakers. It sounds better in two channel than my dedicated two channel desktop system.

Caveat, I did add a dedicated two channel DAC to supplement the DAC in my HT processor.

Anyone thinking they need two systems didn't setup their HT properly.

I have a lot of hard surfaces in this room, which I’m working on rectifying,

The Onkyo has Dirac which is great but still needs room treatments. The way forward is the same for both 2 CH and MCH, get the room right first.

To get the room right you can get a free consult from Auralex or Sonitus, DIY by watching videos, or simply order a room kit and install it.

Everything about separate systems, tube amps, etc. can be put on the back burner until you complete this step. Once you run Dirac in your newly treated room it will be like hearing your system for the first time.

You are fortunate to have a room that size as you can be very precise with your seating and speaker placement.

 

he only downside to running everything thru my AVR is that I won’t have the tubes

You can patch in your tubes multiple ways with your AVR, don’t sell them yet.

I have the room and the speakers and the equipment, and it all seems to be not working as planned

The plan is happening, you did the hard stuff already. Follow up on setting up your room by reaching out to auralex or sonitus.

I’m hoping to find some treatment ideas that can keep this looking like a somewhat "normal" room

You can place your treatments behind acoustically transparent fabric and with the size room you have it will be stunning. 

https://www.acoustimac.com/acoustic-insulation-materials/acoustically-transparent-fabric

 

 

I’ll take a look again at HT bypass.

There are many ways to integrate a two channel amp or preamp in a HT.

The biggest upgrade available as a general rule are room acoustics. You get the seat positioned, the speakers positioned and the room treated and it upgrades everything. However, it lacks the adrenaline rush of buying new gear so is often overlooked or not calibrated properly.

since the ideal 2 channel room uses diffusion to retain energy. whereas the ideal Home Theater uses mostly absorption to reduce comb filtering.

So many examples of both of those approaches. When I put mostly absorption in my HT it sucked the energy right out of the room. Now this room also had carpeting and seating that were absorptive.

Anthony Grimani’s recipe worked great for my room.

Here is a summary of what he recommends for home listening:

  • Avoid LEDE

  • 15% absorption

  • 20% diffusion

  • Carpet or deep absorption pit below listening position

  • Bass traps in ceiling to ceiling corners

  • Absorb first ceiling reflection point

  • 3D diffusion on ceiling behind listener

  • Absorb sidewall reflection if speaker is only a couple ft away from it

  • Panels spaced evenly across sidewalls.

  • Interleave absorbers and diffusers along sidewall. "binaural dissimilarity"

  • Asymmetrical sidewall absorption. Absorbers face diffusers.

  • 2D diffusers in front, 3D behind.

  • Absorb center of wall behind listener "reduces mono-ness", with 3D diffusers on each side.

Example layout for 300-400 sq ft room

OP, plenty of viable strategies in this thread. Start with what you got already IMO.

These Klipsch Reference RF7 speakers can sing, get them singing with great setup and room treatments. I have an Onkyo receiver, the amps are Onkyo’s strengths, now you also have Dirac. Nobody else can tell what this combo will sound like in your room. Look how sensitive your speakers are:

  • frequency response 32-25,000 Hz (±3dB)
  • power handling: up to 250 watts RMS (1,000 watts peak)
  • sensitivity 100 dB

Now look how much power your receiver has:

Power output (All channels) 250 W/Ch (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 10% THD, 1 channel driven) 120 W/Ch (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.08% THD, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Dynamic power 250 W (3 ohms, Front) 220 W (4 ohms, Front) 130 W (8 ohms, Front)

 

How does it sound so far?

OP, a lot of great suggestions here, many requiring $$. I agree with:

6. - Pay someone with the specialized sound equipment to set up your speakers and room - it will ay of in the pure audio system as well.  

Either that or buy the equipment and DIY. Do this first  with what you already own and it is much easier to proceed with anything else. 

@speed121 

Congrats on your attention to detail. I would only add two things. Get a laser pointer/measurer and try and make the MLP equidistant between the front and rear channels. The second thing is HUGE, get the paid upgrade for Audyssey MULTQ-X and the calibrated mic. Your concerns about the screen will likely be a non issue and the tweaking abilities of this upgrade will let you adjust as needed. IMO wide channels are more important then height channels for an immersive experience. make sure to get them as close to 60 degree angles as possible:

 

The DAC in the AV amp simply isn't up to it

Interesting, I added the Sony Signature TAZH1ES DAC/headphone amp/pre for the same reason. I tried it as a preamp in two channel mode but prefer the use of the room correction of my Marantz processor. Now I just run it via the RCA connection into the processor. Another benefit of the outboard dac approach is that it is easier to upgrade a dac then swap out an entire processor or receiver.

Projectors suck compared to OLED

No, they both have advantages. I found a good way to take advantage of Dolby Vision on my non DV PJ was to use a Zidoo device. The DV engine in the Zidoo is able to be read with the HDR in my PJ. Even DVD's look awesome (maybe not OLED awesome but how much is a 120 inch OLED? LOL)

 I love the OP’s gear with the Reference Premier line. Those speakers are so sensitive you could drive then with anything, you just need a big room to accommodate. The La Scala’s are classic and to integrate them with the Reference Premier I would simply call the local Klipsch dealer to make a house call, even if you pay him for his time at least it would be matched together well.

Now, if I were doing a Klipsch HT build myself I would be all over these. Love the size, the ease of placement, the flexibility: