Thanks so much for all the helpful responses, you guys are awsome! I'm hearing the room treatment horn loud and clear. I have tried temporary things like foam pads behind and on the side walls, and also put pillows on the floor in front of the speakers. These things make a "little" bit of difference and I'm not able to leave them there. I do have an area rug in front between my seat and the speakers and cloth blinds on the windows on the side wall of the one speaker. None of this has made much of a difference as the rest of the space is still big and reflective. Tvad, these speakers are NOT laid back to me either. I purchased them because of the review that Newbee mentions above and other favorable reviews. I thought I needed a laid back speaker because of my room. So, if I add another 2250 this would give me better tonal balance? Or, do I get a different pair of speakers? Rich, I bought these speakers less than a year ago here on Agon, I haven't heard them in another room. I've been thinking hard about getting a tube pre, or tube DAC, but wanted to ask here first. Richlane, my speakers are 2' from the back wall and 3.5' from the side walls. My interconnects are nothing special, some Pheonix gold and Monster. I just can't see cables fixing this big of a problem, mabe I'm wrong. Newbee, I will try toeing in the speakers some more so they cross if front of me, I haven't tried that yet. As much as I appreciate the input about my room problems, I really need to approach this from another angle. With that in mind, I'm all ears.
Thanks,
Greg |
Well, I have a lot to take in. Pretty funny richlane, you too Mechans. I did try toeing my speakers in, then out to see if this helped. Toeing out did tame down the high end, but then I didn't feel like I was part of the music anymore. sort of like standing in the back of the room listening to a band. Shazam, you stated you thought the PS Dac was a problem for you. I'm wondering if I tried a tube dac like a Havana if this would calm things down. I can get a new one for what I can get for my PS audio. If I don't like it they sell like hot cakes here. I understand that bat tube preamps are discribed by some as dark. I'm wondering if I would benefit from that type of change. Tvad, I will try a different amp. I'm not stuck on the Butler, I just know it's on the warmer side of SS. Listening today I did notice that the louder I turned up my system the brighter the highs got. Maybe this is an indicator of what your talking about, or maybe the highs are bouncing around more, I don't know. Yes, this is a fun hobby, a little frustrating at times, but fun none the less. I thank all of you again for taking the time to help me out. |
Again, thank you for all your input and your time doing it. Blindjim, The situation with me and my gear is this. Several months ago, maybe 6, I decided to get back into the hobby. I had an old NAD preamp tuner and a cheap audiosource amp3. I still had my KEF 103/4 speakers from 20 years earlier and decided to buy everthing new (to me). I started reading the forums here and several audio reviews to try adn decide what I should buy. I know this isn't the best way to put a system together, but we just don't have the retail stores around here in Seattle like we used to. And, although I grew up here and have many friends I don't have a single one that's cares about gear or music for that matter. This is why after several months of listening to my system and continuing to read what many of you have to say on these forums I decided to reach out and ask for help. I will say that I did not have the brightness problem with my old set up. That being said, the system was very closed in and I'd say even muffled to some degree. I can say one observation is that I did play my NAD with the Butler amp and also my surround sound Denon 990 and the system was not bright. But it was also very closed in without a lot of detail and the Denon just sounded bad. When I added the Capri which was slightly used it also seemed closed in. Then after a couple of weeks bam! While I was listening it just completly opened up. That's when the brightness started. So much for me not believing componants break in. Yes, the sytem is brighter, but I can hear everything now like a veil was lifted. So, my thinking is that any quality pre would probably do the same thing.
I do listen to my system pretty loud around 70 to 95db depending on my mood and the music I'm playing or how much I've had to drink :). And yes, I do have to turn up the system to get the speakers to fill the room, otherwise the music just feels like it's not forward or engaging enough. I've thought about a sub and also wondered what another speaker that dives a little deaper in the base might do for me (Aerial 10T?). I expected the 7B to do the job, but they seem to mostly do a really good job at tight fast base which I do like. TVAD, I've been contemplating raising my speakers up already, but for a different reason. Mabe I can solve two problems at the same time. The ends of my two identical couches are very close to the front of the speakers and yes, this does effect the base to some degree. I've moved the couchs out of the way along with my coffee table and know what the differences are so I didn't bring that into the mix here. That is not the heart of the problem. When lifting my speakers up, are there some general rules to follow? Do I use wood covered in carpet, concrete, how high do I lift them ect? I really do want to get to the bottom of this, I hate a bright system. I'd rather go the other way and lose a "little" detail. Thank You All Again! |
Thanks Soix, It sounds like from many here that I should try cables as a possible improvement to my system. I'm always willing to keep an open mind. The lesson can't be learned without trying. I am a true believer in that. I tell my Daughter that all the time. So, I will try ICs and PCs and Speaker cables as part of my venture into making the system I've always wanted to have. I will also try raising my speakers off the floor a bit and try another amp in my system to see how that effects the speakers. I do have an APC power conditioner and a dedicated 20a curcuit for my system for those who asked. I don't have balanced ICs as my amp doesn't support them.
In Reading these threads the last few months, I find the willingness to help refreshing. I have also found people giving each other a bad time. I don't see how this is productive. We all have our own opinions, isn't that what the OP is asking for? With that said, once again thank you for ALL of your input. I will post to this thread when I come up with a solution. I hope it's sooner than later. Take Care, |
Sdrenslow, I do have a large room. This room incorporates my living room, dining room, kitchen and loft above the kitchen. The ceiling is 17'.3" tall and flat, so this adds even more volume to the space. Not only that, the entry and the hallway are also open to this room which I didn't add to the footage stated. My seat is pretty close to the speakers at about 9' and the speakers are about 8' apart. I can't change rooms as I don't have another room to put the system in. I do have a 20'x30' out building that i've been thinking about turning into a guest house, cabana, audio room. This may end up happening sooner than later if I can't solve my problem. Thank you for your post. |
Shadorne, I did read your post and have thought of that option before. I am limited with space in my rack and was trying to avoid adding another componant. I'm sure a peq would allow me to change the sound to my liking.
Thanks, |
Thank you for your posts. I will try to find some time to post some pics of my room. I think you will then see why I can't do treatments. I have tried a couple of experiments that have taught me alot about what sound I am looking for. First of all with TVADS advice, I tilted my speakers up by placing 3/4" footers under the front spikes. This mellowed out the harshness from the upper mids and highs alot, but still too bright for me. Second experiment was to by a Yaquin Tube buffer which I placed between my pre and dac. This completely changed the sound. The sound evened out with much more base, more lower midrange and a much warmer, smoothed out presentation with a nice amount of decay. Now, grant you this buffer rolls off the highs a bit, softens up the base and takes away some detail. But, it gets me much closer to the warmer more anolog sound I seek. The third thing I did, again as an inexpensive test is picked up a Play Station 1, $10.00. This was to take my dac out of the system which I believe may be, as someone suggested above a big part of the problem. I didn't expect the PS-1 to sound near as good as it did. I see why people like them. It does lack alot of detail, even more than adding the buffer, so it's ultimately not for me. My conclusion "so far" is that I like the sound much warmer and organic than what I have now, but I don't want to sacrifice the detail to get it. So, something I would like further input on is this. Should I replace my dac with a tube dac that has more detail than the low cost products I tested with, or should I replace my pre with a tube pre to get the sound I am looking for? What dac in the $1 to $1.5 thousand dollar range would fit the bill? Or should I look into a tube pre? Thanks for your help!
Greg |
