How to fix a lack of bass Null


Hi
Have tryed tying all sorts of different key words on Audiogon, until to day did'nt relised, that a room could be affected by a lack of bass, from what I read, this call a null, I have tryed different equipment over the last couple of years as I always thought that my equiment was bass shy. I found this programe on Audiogon called Hunecke speaker calulator, not shore if I am using it properly,It shows a big dip @31.5 - 63 hz and could explain a lake of base at my seating position, I cant seem to be able to move the speaker with the cursor, this is suppose to change speaker location and tell you flatess spot I think if I am reading it right? Do I buy a meter and setup disk? what treaments is there for this problem (Nulls), if this is the case?I google with know real answer's!
Room 5.250L x 4.00W x 2.4H
k_rose

Showing 7 responses by shadorne

Commcat's recommendation is bang on - see my virtual system for an alternative to a bookcase. The other issue is quarter wave cancellation in the bass from the wall behind the speakers. As the article explains, the only way to eliminate this entirely is to go to a soffit mount (as they almost always do in high end studios with their main monitors). An alterntive is to add plenty of bass trapping on both walls but at these frequencies you will probably need at least 4 GIK tri-traps or something of similar size before you can begin to make a difference.

Unfortunately a TACT or a PARC or an PEQ is unable to fix nulls (unless it alters the phase - which some EQ's do and which you might not want if you have phase accurate speakers to begin with). However, since a TACT or PARC allows you to EQ down the peaks then generally the "nulls" are much less masked by the peaks - so it really helps. Another trick is to have copious bass (more than you need) and then EQ the peaks down to get a desired response by attacking ONLY the peaks.

The unfortunate thing about nulls is that you cannot boost them or fix them in any other way except for speaker/listener placement and room acoustic design/treatment (if you wish to avoid playing with the phase of your bass signal which may affect how you perceive transients). The bad news is that this takes tremendous amounts of absorption to achieve - huge huge booskhelves and other large thick absorbers that work at bass frequencies. You can achieve good results with helmholtz tuned devices (like tube traps) but ONLY if you really know what you are doing - I'd suggest you hire an acoustician like Rives in this case - broadband bass and lower mid absorbers are easy for anyone to add to room corners and can really only do good....resonators require much greater expertise, IMHO.

What you have discovered is a common problem for 90%+ of all HT and full range two channel listeners. Most people focus on ever higher end more expensive gear and simply ignore this issue altogether and contend that it does not exist. These are mostly cases of extreme wishful thinking, where WAF or room aesthetic issues have a much higher priority than good sound.
What Newbee adds is quite correct - both frequencies appear to be due to room length mode. The 31 Hz null will dominate as it is one mode with a high signal at each end of your room and a complete null right in the middle (and you probably sit somewhere near the middle). See this - just enter your room dimensions.

Big Book shelves and lots of thick bass absorbers at both ends of room (treat all corners) are your best bet as moving the speakers will NOT help (at least not at 31.5 Hz)

Another option is to run a sub up to 80 Hz and place it up against the side wall between one quarter and one third of the room length. This will strengthen your width axial modal response and may cause a new issue to begin to apppear at 43 Hz - but it will certainly help you hear 31.5 Hz and 63 Hz at your listening position - if you can get the balance right between mains and sub. The idea is to use the mains and sub to balance competing room modes for a more even response. Placing a sub there would be a horrible place to put a speaker but could work a little better particularly for 31.5 Hz mode (which is probably a total suckout).
Rocadanny,

What you probably did was to attenuate the tangential room mode. The nasty thing about tangential nulls is they line up along the center line of a room - so you get a null right down the middle of the length of the room no matter where you sit. Treating corners helps with this too.
I'd suggest a fire place with logs stacked all around it on the rear wall of the master bedroom with bookshelves around it. The other thing is to consider a large extra thick latex mattress king size bed - avoid spring mattresses as they do little in the bass - a thick Latex mattress will be an extremely effective absorber placed at one end of the room or towards one of the four corners. The other trick is soft padded furniture - love seat with big cushions. You will be suprised - you can do a lot without causing a divorce (acoustic panels in a bedroom would certainly do that...)
BTW, what frequency spectrum would be attenuated by the mattress you recommend?

Absorption is mostly about size and thickness. A mattress of this type will usually be several layers of different density latex and therefore you should get good broadband absorption. Unfortunately, a coil mattress and box-spring has much of the space filled with air - so if you can find something to stuff the box with then you'll get an amazing low end response.
At first I thought you were recommending that the mattress be mounted on the wall or in the corners!

Newbee. Where you mount your mastress is none of my business - just don't get caught doing it!
For those who don't want to hire a consultant. (The majority no doubt) The trick is broadband absorption in the bass - as many innovative WAF acceptable ways to introduce absoption as you can - from a big Ottoman to a new comfy love seat to large stuffed "beannie babbies" - yeah the big ones that are like 4 feet tall - in that sense kids can be your secret weapon - buy them big stuffed toys that always end up left in the living room.

If you have a tall thin blonde Swedish wife who likes Ikea scandanavian styles with hardwood floors and modern furniture (hates Laz-y-boy stuffed seats) then in an audiophile sense you are toast. However, in this case you probably don't listen much to music anyway ;-)