How to find the good CD recordings?


I'm new to high end audio but have a decent system. One of the things I've noticed with this new (old) system, is that some of my CDs which I used to think sounded fine just don't sound all that good anymore while some of them sound great. A lot of these CDs are 30 years old and came from CD clubs (remember those?) and typical record stores.

I've noticed in particular that some of my Led Zep CDs just sound a little flat and a little shallow while some of the Pink Floyd and Rush CDs sound quite good. 

Is this just a matter of Floyd and Rush having higher production quality from the beginning? 

Would later "remastered" Zep CDs sound better? Is "remastered" always an indication of better or superior quality? Is it just marketing hype sometimes?

Anyway, with this new system I am inclined to buy the best quality recordings of any newer music I buy and possible replace some of my old favorites.

So is there a place on the internet where one can go to get reviews of the actual recording quality and not just the music itself. I don't see iTunes or Amazon as particularly useful here. At this point I am not interested in pursuing vinyl or high end audio files. I'm still just getting my feet wet and CDs seem like a cheap way to do that.

Any assistance much appreciated,

George
n80

Showing 15 responses by lowrider57

If a CD sounds very flat or with poor detail, you can try reversing the speaker leads. Many recordings have been mastered out of phase or polarity.
One of the best websites for info on CD quality from experts and users is to Google the Steve Hoffman forums.

And as far as remastering of rock bands goes, the originals are almost always better. If you own a high quality, revealing CDP or transport/ DAC, the data extracted from the early Redbook disks can reproduce astounding music. Led Zep and Pink Floyd especially. Remasters will remove tape hiss but at the cost of compressing the dynamics.

I have hunted down the early LZ releases and often the German pressings are superior. The Japan issues are also very good. Once in awhile, an early US CD may sound the best. On my system these CDs have low noise, good tonal quality and excellent 3D imaging. The telltale sign of good digital LZ is if Bonham’s drum kit has good separation and the kick drum cuts thru the mix.
I also have a collection of Pink Floyd CDs from different periods. I like the Japanese releases. I must say that the 2011 Floyd remasters are very good.

I use Discogs .com as a reference to find every version of a recording.


Since you will be playing CDs, or any form of digital music, you need to learn about "The Loudness Wars."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

There’s also another period in CD history; for a short time when CDs were being introduced, some masters were not transferred at the proper specs for a digital disk, so they suffered from poor quality. Many were recalled or thrown away, so it’s unlikely to find one.

Your Arcam may be a fine player, but the rest of chain is also important for revealing good SQ from music recordings.

Start buying some used CDs or "sale" items and see how they sound. If you have a decent system you’ll be able to hear the disks that suffer from overcompression. They have limited dynamics, most noticable in the bass. It’s not deep or tight and the bassline usually blends into the rest of the instruments. There may be a wide soundstage, but there won’t be much of a 3D image.

The 2014 LZ remasters are quite good,  The drums are clean with good separation. What they don't reveal that a good original CD does is the decay of Bonzo's large drums and the ambience of the studio. The best pressings reveal "air" around his kit.

And Barry Diamond mastered every CD except IV (Joe Sidore, uncredited).
@shadorne , I can understand your take on the RM drums. It’s the first thing I noticed when playing the new Zep. Excellent work by Jimmy Page. I bought all the remasters on vinyl to replace my worn out records (started playing them when I was a teenager). I learned many of Bonzo’s licks when playing drums in my youth.

As my digital rig surpassed my vinyl, I went a quest to find the best quality CDs. It’s a mix of US, German, and Japanese...and the 2 Targets.
The most amazing sound comes from a LZ II pressed at Teldec.


And then there's the issue of reversed channels on LZ releases. On Steve Hoffman there's a very long discussion about the matrix numbers and which issues have the correct L,R channels.
Regarding finding the best Zep CD, it’s kind of a crapshoot.
I’m listening to LZ IV today and all 3 releases are different. The US (1987) has little detail and poor imaging; there is no separation between vocals and drums.
Germany (1987) is holographic. A wide and deep detailed image, and great separation with drums in the background with a clear bassline. It’s outstanding.
Germany Target release (1984) is transparent with good detail and a 3D image. Drums have space behind the vocals.
And sometimes there is no difference in SQ between a first issue and a later release.

With all the different CD releases I own, the best sound comes from a pressing with a low noise floor. The pressing plants may get the same master, but like pressing vinyl, each facility is different and the QC is different. Pressing a CD is a physical process where the playing side of a disk is actually pressed into a very accurate formation.

Another example, I have a very clean copy of LZ I, but it will never equal the SQ of the later albums due to the noise in the recording. The master tape was recorded over many times during the mixing session, the source reels had many hours rewinding/FF on the ATR’s. And due to the tape wear there is noise and even bleed through.

I’ve discovered that finding quality CDs is no different than looking for the best vinyl release. It takes some research and buying several copies.


And then there's the issue of reversed channels on LZ releases. On Steve Hoffman there's a very long discussion about the matrix numbers and which issues have the correct L,R channels.
geoff, I’ll bet phase was not a major consideration for recordings of that era.
As to polarity, there would be no consistancy, don’t you think?
I should invert polarity on the flat sounding CDs.

If the various Zeppelin masters for worldwide distribution had inconsistent channel assignments, how many other mistakes were there?


@n80,
since you like the hard rock blues that Zeppelin is known for, I suggest you pick up the BBC Sessions Remaster (1997) CD. It's 2 CDs with side one containing blues performances in the BBC studio. And it's outstanding SQ; raw with great studio ambience.
Side two is LZ performing live in 1971.

And if you'd like to know which versions of the Zep CDs you own, feel free to PM me. I'm sure I can identify them.

Hi n80,
  There are many LZ bootlegs. BBC Sessions and The Complete BBC Sessions are official Atlantic releases remixed by Page.
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-BBC-Sessions-3CD/dp/B01IOAAZSE/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_15_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&...

This may be what you have on iTunes. Disk one was recorded in the BBC studios and is very good quality. These were live to tape recordings for broadcast.

The latest release is a bootleg called How The West Was Won. Jimmy cleaned it up and released it as an official remaster. The performances are really exciting, the band is young and really into it. Disk one is compressed but it doesn't matter because the band is so good. The SQ on disk two (at the LA Forum) is quite good.
  Just don't make the mistake of buying the original bootleg which is still for sale.


I was recently looking for a cut that I knew I had on at least 3 CDs. They sounded completely different from each other. One was a US issue and the others on later Brit collections.

I have been saying that CD releases of the same album sound different and most people disagree. First of all, you must have a system that is revealing enough to hear these differences.
I own US, German 1st and late pressings, and Japanese CDs. I am talking about original flat masters, the first generation from the 1980’s.
When comparing SQ, there is no steadfast rule as to which will sound the best. Very often a German pressing will sound best, sometimes the US will stand out.


n80
I looked up my Zeppelin CDs on the dynamic range database. My 1990 Zep I Diament did not rate very well, but II and III by Diament and IV by Page all rated very high.

I’m going to look for a Physical Graffiti CD next. I’ll use the database but open to suggestions as well.

The Zep CDs were not released in chronological order, but you should be looking for the 1986 and 87 issues. There are the early Target issues from Germany, 1985; excellent SQ, very transparent, but only LZ IV $ HOTH were produced.

The early releases should not have a barcode. And a first release is a nice collectable having a solid silver inner ring, as opposed to transparent plastic.


The solid silver disc is highly reflective of scattered laser light, thus produces more noise.
I guess that’s possible since it’s often advised to use a coating or cover the the reflective areas of CD’s.
But as I stated earlier, finding the best quality CD pressing is a crapshoot. Some of my silver ring CDs have outstanding SQ. However, first issues are not always the best sounding, even when they have the transparent inner ring. I have some late issues that sound better.
I’m a collector of CDs and vinyl so I like owning first pressings, including the silver discs. And they do maintain their higher value.