How to choose a cartridge you can't hear on your system?

@chadlesko well, if you're a true analog hobbiest don't fool yourself and just realize that you will change the cartridges from time to time over the years anyway. This is the only way to learn more about cartridges, analog playback and the potential of the system. People who would like to stick to their first serious 2-3 cartridges without trying other cartridges are limiting themselfs, missing a great personal experience. You can not really "choose" cartridge without tryin' it in your system! You can buy cartridge, but then you can choose or not, only after you're listening your favorite records in your system with this cartridge. I'm just looking for the best TOTL models from the different brands released in the 70s/80s (they are more cost effective without any dissadvantages in quality, most likely surpass the new carts). I'm taking in count the type of the cartridge (MM, MI, MC), the materials used for cantilever, type of the stylus tip, compliance, specs to match the tonearms i have. I've learned what i have to avoid, i remember what cartridges does not impressed me and how they were build. I don't care about reviews.     

@daveyf at the same time there are many people who can buy demo from the dealer with warranty to save 30-40% at least on multi thousand $$ cartridge, most likely you're talking about MC cart only. Demo unitls sells well, in fact i bought demo amp, demo speakers, demo tonearm and happy about them, no issues. So for the serious dealer it's not a problem to have demo and to get rid of demos. But this is a proper customer service. I think the dealer must have a demo set-up with demo units, the re-seller or shop may not have demos. 

@clearthink cost has nothing to do with performance, if you think $1000 is modest price then you are ignoring the world of vintage cartridges, they are all under $1000, sometimes 50%, but they are easily killing those $3000 MC carts and we have dedicated thread on this forum with so many contributors proved that fact. All those carts were very expensive when they were made, but compared to today’s market price they are bargains (used of even NOS) !

For thouse who would like to experiement with different cartridges and different sound it’s much more reasonable to buy 10 vintage MM cartridges instead of 1 modern MC if the person is not sure (yet) what sound he would like to have in his system.

It’s not necessary anyone should spend multi thousands for the cartridge. I would say more: start with vintage MM and find the best, after that try to find a better MC (it will be hard).

If you start from the oppisite direction then you will be very disappointed in sound of your very expensive MC compared to some of the top vintage MM for 1/10 of the price you paid for your MC (not even taking in count the SUT).

New cartridge is not a new car, you tell me what is the advantages of the new cartridge in terms of material used (compared to those carts made in the 80s)? Do you hear the difference between brand new $4000 MC cartridges and $16000 MC cartridges? Are you sure the $16000 MC cartridge is better? Everyone should buy them just because the seller said it’s the best of the best asking crazy price for it? Even if the simple test is not possible like the author of this thread stated? The more you pay the more you get? And would you like to advice those cartridges to experiment with to a person who/re looking for "his sound". You may end up with those ultra high-end type of stuff after you have tried nearly all top vintage cartridges (and only if you are not happy with them), otherwice there is no reason to buy those multi thousands carts, just because they are new. Are you sure those new carts are well made and there're no flaws if you will look on them with your microscope?

Don’t know what is your source to buy vintage cartridges, but i have no isses with any of them, having many rare ones in collection and i have pretty good equimpent to look at the stylus, cantilevers etc. And BTW i’m not a person who advocate old things, just because i have not tried the new expensive things or can’t afford some of them. I owned several very expensive brand new MC cartridges and various vintage MCs too. I can not fool myself with what i hear on various turntables with various tonearms (old and new). And if you know a little about cartridge construction you should know that stuff like FR-7f MC (for example) can’t dried up! Those MM with poor materials used in suspension/damper are well known today and must be avoided.

My point is to start with the vintage cartridges and don’t fool yourself with high priced units, they are not necessarily better even if the price is 10 time higher - this is marketing for audiofools. The industry, back in the day, claimed the CD is better that vinyl and what?

@daveyf

Chakster, if you enjoy an old cartridge that is more than likely destroying your vinyl, so be it. Cartridges are a wear item, plain and simple. Like Clearthinks stated, just one play can easily damage the groove if the cartridge is badly worn.

I don’t buy worn cartridges, anyone has an ears to compare worn cartridges to a brand new reference or new old stock (sealed) you opened by yourself with zero hrs of use. The worn cartridge does not sound right from the start and must be avoided! Anyone can measure the compliance of the cartridge by using test record, this will give you the idea about condition of the damper (to make sure it’s not dried up). When you put the needle on the record you can visually make conclussion about the damper (condition). Anyone can send vintage cartridge for inspection to SoundSmith or use the microscope. Audiophiles who sells vintage cartridges got many of them in rotation and the actual usage of each of them are very low, the rare cartridges comes from private collections.

If you will think about those used vintage vinyl records that are still superior to most of the new re-issues you will understand that something made 40-50 years ago can easily surpass your new stuff, just because it was made better. Even the fact that most of those old vinyl have been played with average cartridges, does not make them inferior for some reason. Just think about it. My vintage vinyl recorded much better than new vinyl (most of them). Should i mention an old tubes and why they are superior to the new tubes (this is another story).

A vintage cartridge..dried up and with a worn stylus is just asking for trouble. Unless that is you have a small LP collection of little value and like to play DJ, then who cares-- LOL. All IMHO.

You have never tried a good vintage cartridge, so what can you say? If you’re afraid to do so just don’t do that, and stick to the expensive new stuff, that you can’t even audition before you will pay for them, and if you don’t like them you can not sell it for the same price again. So the cost of your mistakes are high, hope it’s fine for you.

My collection is definitely not the biggest, but i prefer quality over quantity. As i said earlier i prefer the originals, so the value of my collection is not low at all, you may be shocked by the price of some of my original pressings. Do you want to continue to explain me the basics?

Ignore my opinion, but just read what other people think about vintage MM cartridges and their quality compared to some overpriced MC carts: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/who-needs-a-mm-cartridge-type-when-we-have-mc

Your own opinion sounds like: "I never tried it, but i don’t like it"

As for the DJing i will tell you about David Mancuso (RIP) who dj’ed with a pair of Koetsu cartridges and FR64 tonearms since the 70s in NYC, but he just played one record next to another on very well isolated platforms for his Technics SP-10 Mk2 on the special base made by Mitchell A. Cotter. If you will looks at the set-up at NYC Paradase Garage club (1977 - 1987) you will see the Infinity Black Widow low mass tonearms on Thorens turntables, and high compliance Stanton MM cartridges. That oldschool DJ set-up is better than many audiophiles set-up today. Those Stanton, especially the 981HZS, are amazing cartridges, believe it or not. After that maybe you will stop joking about real DJing?