How Should We Clean A New Record?

Loontoon, I generally agree with you. I'd like to point out that there is much better quality water to be had over the R/O polished water to which your refer. I'm lucky to live in an area that manufacuters products used in the computer industry and have enjoyed access to the water they make on site and have a large quantity on hand. There's no crunchy granola suite left on microchips. I've also acquired lab grade water from from a local lab source and can hear no difference between the two different waters. I do use a commercial multi-step concentrate which contain surfactants without which the water would bead up. We agree.

I find it cool that we are about the same age with the same passion for our precious recordings. And, again I'm not taking any issue with the technical aspects you presented. My point about boulders in the grooves being held in place by the mold release agents has to do with particles percipitating out of the air and not being able to be removed by a dry brush. That's one reason I defy conventional audiophile wisdom and retain my dust cover. It's just an added measure of protection. Since my suspended table was designed with a dustcover and I can hear no benefit by it's removal I leave it in place. Yes, I do rinse and find the multi-step proceedure a pain. You mention that you can hear the residue for a time after cleaning a new record. My experience is just the opposite. My new recordings have proven to be quieter with cleaning. For the sake of full disclosure I no longer even play a new recording without first cleaning it. This concept has been proven to my satisfaction some time ago so I've adhered to it. Maybe one of us has a more revealing analog front end I guess or better hearing. For the record, mine is a Linn LP12/Ittok/Valhalla/ZYX Airy3 S SB/Supratek Syrah. My hearing seems to be fine although I'm sure I've lost the high frequency extremes that fortunately lie outside of most of the information contained in the grooves. Funny though, I do hear the benefits of a super tweeter. Go figure.

Also, I dry brush after each play. I figure it can't hurt and only takes a second.

I respect your sharing this information and appreciate it. Someday somebody will finally introduce an ultrasonic record cleaner that uses only the best water as a cleaning agent and everyone will be on the same page. Hold onto your wallets because it'll be expensive.

I appreciate all of the information you've given this community and hope you continue with this tradition. Your many years in research is respected by this A'goner. No insult intended and none taken.

Wow, controversy here. Still, I appreciate your thoughtful insights and before I give you my thoughts on what you've written I've believed for over two decades that the ultimate cleaning method for records would be ultra pure water in conjunction with ultrasonic action. This would require a total redesign of cleaning machines and would be a slow process and therefore would need to be totally automatic and hugely expensive.

I can't take direct issue with anything you've posted except in a practical sense. To explain fully I offer real world experience collecting and playing vinyl for 40+ years. Born in 1950 and beginning my active collecting of records with the British invasion in 1962, I was fortunate to have a family friend in the radio business teach me the proper handling of my records and instilled in me the fear of allowing others to even touch them. My family respected this. This friend also introduced me to the original Watts record care products at the time and later to inner and outer record sleeves as they emerged on the market. So, my original purchases enjoyed every opportunity to remain in as good a condition as possible without being left sealed, stored and rotated on a regular basis.

My wife and I married in 1973 and on our honeymoon purchased a generic pressing of Duane Allman's "Laid Back" which has proven to be one of our most played records. Without exaggeration it has been played at least 1500 times. At least side "A" at any rate. I've gone through Watts, Discwasher and just about every other cleaning product through the years and in the late 70's paid a fairly hefty price to my local audio salon to clean all my albums with a Kieth Monks machine, the chemistry of which I havn't a clue. Since buying my own RCM I've experimented with numerous cleaners until I found those products I'm most happy with. Many of my LP's have been exposed to nearly every product I've ever used. I've drawn heavily upon my experience as a mechanical designer for the industrial food industry. No chemical background here, just the application of good common sense through experience gained. My superiors were all PHD's in chemical engineering and would explain anything I asked about my desire to properly care for my vinyl and they introduced me to the cleaning action of pure water, the universal solvent, and its aggressive action. This was in the early to mid 80's. I've given thoughtful consideration to the proper use of current production RCM's and my practices are somewhat different than the ones recommended by the manufacturers. Simply put, I vacuum more and use more steps as well as greater amounts of fluid.

I cannot take issue with your comments about alcohol and enzymes in a scientific sense. You're probably right. But in a practical sense I liken their use to driving a car past some plutonium laying in the median of the interstate. Pass it by at 75 mph (yeah, that's legal here in Idaho) and the exposure is minimal and will be unlikely to cause you any harm. Stop, pick it up and fondle it for too long and you can certainly predict the harm that will occur. The exposure times used in cleaning a record are short and if done correctly the chemistry, IMHO, is totally removed, or to an extent which is so minimal as to be totally removed.

Back to the Greg Allman album. It's dead silent and in spite of the generally held belief that records wear out through repeat playings, to my ears, in my system, I hear every nuance it has to offer. Remember, it, as well as a lot of my collection has been cleaned numerous times by various products. Nearly all of my records are similar in their condition, even records bought used and very, very old. There is NO crackling, additional surface noise or sonic degradation that I can detect. Even these are remarkably quiet. Not to brag, just to state a fact, many folks having SOTA digital systems have been exposed to my records, listening to a mixed bag of their choice of recordings, from early pressings, through domestic generics and current audiophile pressings. Many have subsequently entered the world of analog through the experience BECAUSE it dusts the best of even the finest SACD's and the lack of surface noise is what pushed them over the edge.

Without cleaning the boulders that are left to be pushed around by the stylus cause great harm since the mold release compounds do not allow them to be removed by simple brushing. Vinyl experiences a near melt down on playing because of forces approaching two tons per square inch. It doesn't take much imagination to visualize rocks being pushed around by a diamond in a soft compound and the real world damage potential. An unclean stylus can cause even worse damage. I cannot emphasize how much I do not agree with your post here. It simply doesn't apply in the real world and your suggestion, based on my seasoned "real world" experience, is not serving this community well at all.

My record collection represents a huge investment on my part and if I were to sell it one at a time for market value now I would have zero, I repeat, zero returns based on a NM description. I never purchased this music for investment purposes, only for my own personal enjoyment and I paid retail for the vast majority of what I own. If the possible degradation eventually shows up years down the road I don't care one whit and just like so many theories versus empirical evidence, no one will ever know if degradation occurs from the cleanings as you advise against or whether it's the result of the natural aging process of vinyl. These discussions, if they are ever held, will happen long after we both have left this planet irrespective of how young YOU are. This software has remainded faithful to me and shows no evidence of the fears that may be instilled here.

The science behind your post is without issue in IMO. But, if only taken to an illogical extreme. The real world again differs from the fears of the theorists as is so often the case in this life. I clearly hear the benefits of cleaning new pressings and will continue to do so without any worry whatsoever. There will be posters to this thread that differ with my opinion. That's okay. I don't care. What I do care about is those that are relatively new to analog and may take your advice. My offer is for anyone that wants to hear the so called damage done to my vinly is welcome to drop by and listen to its absence.

I'm satisfied with my sources for water. There is probably a need for folks that are not in the know for some more information.

Thanks for all your effort.

Justin time,

Obviously surfractants, HPLC water and ultrasonic action is too aggressive. Still, I believe even a conventionally applied approach as a first step to remove the mold release compounds followed by an ultrasonic bath using only HPLC water is a sound idea.

Another point which needs to be brought up is cartridge selection. I do rinse with pure, lab grade water as a final cleaning step and that may be partly why I'm satisfied with my cleaning ritual. Through the years I've also found that there are a few cartridge manufacturers whose products seem nearly immune to the surface noises of which we are discussing while other cartridges seem to enhance these artifacts. That is one reason I left the moving magnet camp in the 70's, especially the Shure V15 that is a fine piece in every other regard. My current cartridge is the most quiet in the groove moving coil I've ever heard while still bringing out all of the inner details I love.

Tone arms, tables and phono stages also contribute to what we are discussing even though, to a certain extent, this seems illogical. At least that is what my ears have discoverd through the years. Linear tracking arms are by far the best in my experience but good ones are clearly outside of any budget consideration for me. - Side note here. I'm a strong mechanical guy and a real lightweight with electronics. I've been very lucky being able to hear components in other systems that didn't enhance surface noise and chose those within my budget to great effect. I enjoy great synergy from stylus to amps.

A decade or so ago a CFC cleaner was banned from use. I've never used this product but understand it really removed the mold release compounds and nasty fingerprints quite easily. In one of the many audio catalogs I receive and promptly give away there was a reintroduction to an evironmentally friendly replacement product. Are you familiar with this first step? Any reason not to use them?

For sure, proper cleaning of records is a very time consuming process and one which takes a lot of experimenting to get right. I honestly believe that many folks just don't take the time to experiment and get it right. I intentionally pulled records I cleaned last month for a repeat play last night just to see if I could hear any traces of dried surfactants you mention. My final rinse with lab grade water must make a difference because all of these examples are as quiet as I've ever heard.

I'm surprised that there haven't been more posts to this thread. Mind sharing how many hits it's gotten?

Letch,

Check in your phone book's yellow pages under Laboratories-testing. Find a lab that is a Certified Laboratory Service. They make their own lab grade water. This water has less than 0.1 ppm total disolved solids and is ideal for a final rinse.

The local lab here is so kind about giving the water away. Since discovering their existence I've shared the news with a small group of other vinyl enthusiasts that also get the water free. I would suggest that you buy a 2 1/2 gallon container of drinking water at the grocery store and after consuming it have it filled with the good stuff. That way you have a lot on hand and don't make a pest out of yourself by stopping by too often.

Expect the lab grade water to bead up on the record like the RRL Super Vinyl Wash although this somewhat depends on the vinyl's composition. I use a cheap foam paint brush to gently work the rinse water into the record surface for a couple of rotations and immediately vaccuum.