how should i move forward...blu-ray etc...?

I was all set to recommend a Blu-ray player with internal TrueHD and DTS-HD MA decoders, but there's just one thing, and correct me if I'm wrong:

The Theta Casanova does not have line level analog 5.1 or 7.1 inputs.

If it does, then by all means connect the Blu-ray player's multichannel analog outputs to the Theta's multichannel inputs.

If the Theta doesn't have these, then we're looking at a new player *and* a new pre/pro.

02-09-09: Richard_stacy
the analog input card is 6 stereo rca inputs for line level analog output devices,

Right. That's what I thought when I went to the Theta website to read up on the Casablanca. Multichannel input is limited to SP/DIF, AES/EBU, and optical digital multichannel. These digital links don't have the bandwidth to pass along lossless multichannel data. And the Casablanca's analog input is limited to stereo pairs.

So no, your Theta Casablanca can't decode, nor even pass along the lossless multichannel surround schemes from Blu-ray.

02-09-09: Chadnliz
Why cant it pass the signal from an internal Blu Ray decoder?

Because it doesn't have an analog 5.1 or 7.1 channel input. You can only connect a coax or Toslink digital link, or an analog stereo pair from a new Blu-ray player with internal decoding to the Theta Casablanca.

02-09-09: Richard_stacy
if you go to theta's site and library, product manuals, casanova, owners manual pdf page 16 shows the exact rear panel layout i have.

I did that, though I found the back panel diagram on page 7. At any rate, there is no multi-channel analog input and no HDMI input, so there's no way to get a lossless surround signal from a Blu-ray player into your Casablanca.

To illustrate what I'm talking about, look at the back panel of an Outlaw 990 AV Pre/pro here. Just to the right of the eight XLR inputs are two sets of color-coded RCA jacks, delineated by two white rectangles. The upper rectangle has 9 RCAs and is labeled "PREAmp Out," Your Casanova has an equivalent 5.1 channel output that's sent on to your amplifier(s).

The lower rectangle has 8 RCAs and is labeled at the bottom, "7.1 AUDIO IN." The 8 jacks are L, C, R, LS, RS, LRS, RRS, and Subwoofer. This 7.1 "Audio In" grouping (or at least a 5.1 Audio In grouping as many pre/pros and AV receivers have) is what you need at a bare minimum to get the lossless surround signals off an appropriately equipped Blu-ray player.

I have a Boston Acoustics AVP7, which is based on the same pre/pro as this Outlaw, and I use its 7.1 analog inputs this way to extract an uncompressed 5.1 surround signal from my SACD/DVD-A player with internal decoding. When used this way, the pre/pro simply functions as an 8-channel line stage.

02-09-09: John_z
...Unless I read their website incorrectly, it looked to me like the Casanova has analog ins, "two pair analog L/R, plus one pair rear L/R, a center and sub..." Of course this may have been an optional card which your particular unit lacks.

Where on the Casanova product page does it say that?

Richard: In response to your most recent post, here's my take on the subject:

You have the state of the art for the previous generation of home theater surround. What surprises me a bit is that Theta didn't include a 5.1 or 7.1 channel analog pass thru. Many receivers and pre/pros included this feature to help "future-proof" their units against new codecs.

Here's what Blu-ray brings to the table:

First of all, the picture. It doesn't matter what whiz-bang video up-converter or $25K Faroudja outboard processor you use, the best that will do is make 480p watchable on a large screen. At its best it may fool you into feeling like you're watching a 35mm print in a theater from 15 rows back.

With even a $300 Blu-ray player feeding a state-of-the art 1080p/24 digital transfer to a 1080p 120Hz HD video display, you will get a picture that exceeds the sharpness and brilliance of just about any movie theater you've ever been in, and will equal the most advanced theater DLP-equipped digital projection systems and even IMAX.

Concerning surround sound, we have been listening to compromised surround channels for so long we've gotten used to it, letting the L-C-R and subwoofer carry the load when it comes to boom and sizzle. In truth, the surround channels don't sound all that real in DD 5.1 and garden variety DTS because they have so much lossy compression.

So how much better is uncompressed surround? About a year ago Wes Philips of Stereophile reported on hearing Dolby TrueHD at a hi-fi show. It was uncompressed surround sound and was powered by an Onkyo A/V receiver. Yet he said that it was the best surround sound he had ever heard. With uncompressed surround channels, the soundfield comes alive. Images, motion, and direction all come alive in a way that the lossy surround simply cannot.

If you upgrade to 1080p and lossless surround, hang onto your Krells and Wilsons; you can't really do better than that. It's unfortunate that the Casanova doesn't have a multi-channel pass-through. Maybe the thing to do is get a 1080p display, a Blu-ray player with internal lossless decoding, and then pick an inexpensive temporary solution for the pre/pro.

I can see taking one of two paths here:

1) You could buy a used or closeout previous generation pre/pro that has the multi-channel pass-through. Because Outlaw Audio is soon going to have an HDMI 1.3a-capable pre/pro, they're blowing out their very excellent 990s at $699, and those have an excellent 7.1 analog pass through.

2) You could buy an Onkyo A/V receiver with full HDMI 1.3a support, one that has 7.1 preamp outputs, use it as a digital surround pre/pro. You can get the Onkyo TX-SR706 from Amazon for $550 shipped, and it does indeed have the 7.1 channel pre-outs so you can use it as a pre/pro to feed your Krells. The next Onkyo model down does not have the pre-outs.

This would be a $500 solution that would hold you until Theta, Lexicon, Esoteric, or one of the other high end big boys comes out with a pre/pro that incorporates all the HDMI 1.3a switching, extracting, and decoding features.

One other alternative: You might call Theta to see if their new Six Shooter, which is a no-compromise 6-channel line level switcher, would work with the Casanova.

02-09-09: Richard_stacy
johnnyb thanks, what i was afraid of. i'm pretty sure that is correct. was not sure if the digital input formats would work but i guess not. oh well!
it really is hard for me to imagine things sounding that much better anyway.

Oh, I just remembered: Even if you send the audio from a Blu-ray player to your Casablanca over a coax or Toslink digital cable, in many cases is WILL sound better than the digital feed coming off a garden variety DVD.

Why? Because the Blu-ray player downconverts the uncompressed multichannel signal to send over the digital link, and this bitstream comes at two to four times the transfer rate that comes off a regular DVD. In many cases it downconverts to DTS, which is less lossy than Dolby Digital.

So even though it won't be lossless, it *will* be an improvement. This is how I run mine. I use a PS3 for Blu-ray. It has Toslink, HDMI, and analog stereo outputs, but no multichannel ananlog outs. So I use the Toslink into my Boston AVP7 and it sounds really good--incrementally better than most of the DVDs I've watched.

02-10-09: Richard_stacy
...what would i use to run video then to the runco. the vivix has only one pass through and i use it for the hd dtv box..?

What physical format is the pass-through--component or DVI? I couldn't find any pics of the back panels of the two units.

Without more info, I'm assuming the VIVX only outputs composite, S-video, and component video, right? But the Runco display itself accepts DVI as well. If that's the case, directly connect the Blu-ray player to the PL 50-HDX. Use an HDMI-to-DVI cable such as this or this, bypassing the VIVX altogether.

2-10-09: Richard_stacy
...
there is a dvi input on the panel which they describe as...use to connect a computer. does not support the display of copyguard-protected video signals.

According to this 12/2002 review of the PL 50-HDX at this page:

They ... include a DVI (digital video interface) input fully compliant with HDCP (high-bandwidth digital content protection) protocols for future copyrighted HD sources. By incorporating DVI HDCP, the PL-43HDX and PL-50HDX are compatible with forthcoming high-definition DTV tuners equipped with digital-direct outputs in this format.

In other words, HDCP is made to *pass* copyrighted hi-def video signals. That's how HDMI works, and HDMI has a pin-for-pin video compatibility with DVI. I suspect Runco added this DVI input to the monitor to help "future-proof" it for emerging digital video standards. They didn't include it in the VIVX switching, but they provided it on the monitor. The VIVX II *does* have 2-in/1-out DVI switching.

That would be a way to upgrade switchability without ditching your Runco display. But again, with an HDMI-to-DVI cable, you probably won't have to.