rvpiano, why on earth are you so sensitive to a word? It means, functioning badly. It is not meant to be insulting in any way shape or form.
Just a short 75 years ago we were blowing up people with A bombs. Now there's an insult. An insult is an expression or word you hurl at an individual. Then you slap him in the face and challenge him to a dual. We are such cool creatures, anyway. Please, get yourself a gin and tonic, don't forget the lime and chill out. |
rvpiano, listening to the sound is not dysfunctional. It is what we audiophiles do. Can I listen to the sound and enjoy the music at the same time? You bet. Does the sound ever keep me from enjoying the music? Never, unless it is bad music and there is more of that than ever. I have to say that good sound lets me enjoy the music more. What I think is dysfunctional is letting frustration with the sound quality ruin your enjoyment of the music. There have been plenty of times I have been less than happy with the sound of my system but that never stopped me from listening to music.
What the music sounded like when it was recorded is not the point. It is what it sounds like when it is played back. If you can close your eyes and imagine you at a live event you are in business. That is my definition of the absolute sound. |
rvpiano, letting the struggle to achieve the absolute sound or whatever sound you are looking for ruin your enjoyment of music would be IMHO dysfunctional. If you are unhappy with your system, fix it. Don't get mad at the music.
twoleftears, you are exactly right. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. That is a reality no one can change. You and I can argue about the definition of east and west but the reality does not change. How you react to that reality or how that reality affects your life is another topic.
HiFi systems exist to play back music. How well they function in that regard is a continuum from terrible to wonderful. The problem is defining where your system exists on that continuum. That evaluation is further clouded by the differences in perception between us and our lack of language to quantify what we hear. My experience with the best systems is that everyone that hears them readily agrees that these systems are incredible. I interpret this phenomenon to mean that locked in us is the experience of live music and when we hear it we recognize it right away.
All or enough of the ques are present to convince you you are listening to a live performance. This seems to apply to everyone that has gone to live performances. |
rvpiano, that would be sad indeed. Dysfunctional maybe.
@jjss49, The reality is the same for everyone. It is how they interpret it that differs. An absolute sound system will do exactly the same thing for a well recorded Bruce Springsteen concert as for a well recorded symphony, make it believable. The best systems do not discriminate. In spite of imperfections in the process at multiple levels a system can still be put together that with your eyes closed will make you feel as if you are at a live performance and such a system will convince everyone listening to it of exactly the same illusion. |
rvpiano, being an audiophile is all about the sound. It really has little to do with the music. Loving and appreciating music is another endeavor entirely. An audiophile is concerned about the technicalities of sound reproduction. A music lover loves music. It is actually very unusual for a human to not like music. Our life's experience is all about rhythm. |
One more thing. I can understand the negativity. There were many times out of frustration I could have thrown a turntable out the window. It seemed that without spending serious money, which the vast majority of us do not have, you could never approach the ideal. The first system I heard that approached the "absolute sound" was back in 1979 and I think the person put it together by accident more than by design. I have been chasing that level of performance since. You buy a new piece of equipment hoping that it will get you there or at least closer and 80% of the time it does not or even takes you backwards. I can count the pieces of equipment that really made a big improvement on one hand.
Also, you do not need absolute hearing to appreciate the "absolute sound." There is a lot more to it than just frequencies over 10 kHz. They really do not matter all that much. People with aging ears do not have to worry nor can they use it as an excuse. |
There is a structure. It is just very hard to define and might differ according to circumstance (the room). When you hear it you will know it. But, until you have you are a ship out on the ocean without a compass. There is only one degree of defectiveness or another. Thus the endless search for some of us. The fellow realworldaudio is quoting obviously is not there yet. There is no such thing as too much definition. There is only the definition that is there in the recording, no more and no less. Anything else is one form of distortion or another. There is no perfect but, a stereo system can be put together that with your eyes closed will convince you that you are at a live performance with the right recording of which there are many. |
In many cases a realistic volume level is not all that loud. I take my sound pressure meter to some venues.(some you can't take it in with you.) At the Regatta Bar in Cambridge, Ma I get between 85 and 95 dB. At those volumes my ears never ring. These are relatively easy levels to achieve in a home system with the exception of low bass. A speaker will have it's frequency response tested at 1 meter, say it does 20Hz to 20kHz +- 3 dB. what that means in reality in a room at 4 meters is 50Hz to 20kHz if you are lucky. The entire bottom octave is missing and it is that octave that give you the visceral sensations you get at a live venue. So, some systems regardless of the volume are never going to give you the "I am there" vibe. This is just one reason subwoofers are so important even if they open another can of worms. It takes at least two 15" woofers or four 12" woofers to properly load a room at 20 Hz minimum. You can add bass with smaller subwoofers but you won't make it down to 20 Hz effectively enough to get to 95 dB. |
Mahgister, I do not spend my time analyzing you every word. What I can say for certain if you think you can come up with an "absolute sound" system for $500?...... God bless. |
|
@jjss49 , I respectfully disagree. If I put the whole lot of you in a room with an "absolute sound" system all of you would agree right away that is the best you have heard. You know it when you hear it. It is like seeing a hologram. Everybody will see it and be amazed. Not that it won't have some faults but with the best systems you can close your eyes and see the individual instruments and voices. The speakers disappear. It is more than and instrument here and a guitar there. The individual instruments and voices have space around them. My own feeling is that it is 80% speaker and room, 15% amp and 5% everything else. The cheapest system I have heard do this was in and around $90,000 in todays money.
Which in the realm of high end audio is not all that bad. I have heard 200 to 300K systems that did not make it. Perhaps they could with the right speaker placement and room treatment but for whatever reason they did not get there. I also think over dampening the room is better than under dampening. All three systems I heard that made it were strongly directional limiting room interaction....I think. |
There is no reality. It is all an illusion. You want the most believable illusion you can get or the most accurate interpretation of the artist's and engineer's intension. The only way you can possibly know how far this goes is to hear it and it is the rare system that performs at this level.
The money spent has less to do with this level of performance than you would think. I would also guess that most of the people here will know it when they here it. In my aging memory there have been exactly three systems that performed at this level. (that I have heard) One was based on a 4 way dynamic speaker, one on a three way ribbon speaker and the last on ESLs. It is what Harry Pearson called "the absolute sound."
Looking for it can be an addiction. Gammaman just got a set of Magico S7's from a fellow who really needs to be in rehab. He spends ridiculous amounts of money and spits out equipment at an unbelievable rate. Nice guy to know for sure. Just stand at his front door with a catchers glove.
I hope he finds what he is looking for. |
