how much of a difference should equipment make?


I spent the last few months looking for a good sounding 2 channel setup and this is what I ended up with:

McIntosh C50 Preamp
McIntosh MC275 Amp (VI)
SF Cremona M
Audioquest King Cobra XLR
Audioquest Carbon USB
Audioquest Rockefeller SW

Let me just get this out of the way and say it up front.. While the speakers (and their placement in my room) seemed to make a huge difference, the amp, preamp, and cables do not seem to make any discernable difference to me or my wife.

I feel like I have purchased the C50/MC275 due to a combination of the integrated DAC, aesthetics, heritage, level of support, and resale value.

We compared several options at home and in high end audio shops.. For example, in one store, I got to listen to the Cremona M's through a pair of MC1.2kw+C2300+AyreQB9 and then immediately following that, the C50 paired with a single MC275. I really wanted to hear a difference, but nothing. In the same store, I was also able to listen to a Music Fidelity M6 and luxman 550AX connected to the same speakers.

I brought home a demo of a luxman 550AX integrated and an MA6600 McIntosh integrated and did several days of A/B testing with the Cremona M's and we could not detect a difference at all. I tried to make sure that decibel levels were matched by playing a test tone and using an SPL meter.

I am using Jriver with ASIO with a variety of music off of hdtracks.. the music is being sent to the DAC in the C50 via audioquest carbon USB cable in bit perfect asynchronous mode.

I checked the MC275 manual and McIntosh recommends 12AWG wire. When I had a pair of audioquest type 4 connected (which was only 16 AWG), we did detect a small improvement when moving to the 12 gauge Rockeller wires. I did not test any cheaper speaker wire. This was the only time that I heard something other than the speakers make an audible difference.

I was also able to compare a peachtree iDAC and Ayre DAC at my home and I did not detect much (if any) difference between the DAC built in to the C50. I do have the latest firmware.

I heard huge differences when cross shopping speakers and doing A/B tests in stores.. for example, B&W 802D seemed to have much more 'oomph' on the low end, but lacked some midrange and high vocal clarity. It felt a bit like voices were not 'tight' compared to the Sonus Faber line. I listened to a pair of SF Elipsa and they sounded similar to the Cremona M but a bit more 'full'. As if the depth of the sound stage increased and also the bass had a bit more impact.

Although I do not hear any difference in preamp/amp/cabling, it does not mean that a difference does not exist. I am not trying to insult anyone here.. it may just be that the combinations of equipment that I have tried are still somehow 'lacking'.

My questions are as follows....:

1) Is it normal to not hear much (or any??) difference when changing out preamps or amps assuming the components in question are within similar specs?

2) Has anyone else purchased relatively expensive amp/preamp combinations even when you believe the components are not making a difference in the sound quality?

3) Placement and angle of my speakers in my room make almost as much of a difference as the brand and model of the speaker - at least to me. Anyone else have this experience?

4) What am I doing wrong that is leading to not hearing a difference?

I do not believe my ears are at fault.. My wife and friends were with me throughout most of my testing and they came to the same conclusions.

In any event, my setup at home sounds great to me and rivals (again, to my ear) most everything I have heard in audio stores.

Thanks,
ecsrun

Showing 8 responses by csontos

In that case my experience is only coincidental or it is all just in my head. What other factors are in play regarding bass definition?
When you go from a damping factor of up to 500 and compare that to an amp with 1000 or more, you're talking about audible extension of another full octave on the bottom end. That's no subtle difference. That goes for top end rise times also. Going from above 2u sec to below is easily recognizable, given all other performance parameters are of a high standard. As the OP's question refers to similar specs, it stands to reason differences will be subtle at best.
Okay Al, thank you. I have amps with damping factors of 150, 400, 500, 700, and 1000. My understanding is that there is a direct correlation with this number to bottom end control. My experience is that the higher the number, the sharper, more articulate the bass response is. The amps I have with df 0f 1000 do indeed produce discernible notes a full octave lower than the others. The others have the extension alright, but notes are not articulately discernible. Can you please elaborate a little more on this? Or just cut to the quick and tell me it's all in my head.
Alright. Given that the speaker sees far less actual damping than what the amp itself produces, does it not stand to reason that practically, the more the amp is capable of, the more the speaker will effectively see regardless of what is accurately representative in numbers? Btw, the amp in question here is the Acoustat TNT200 which is a pure fet class A/B amp. I don't have a lot of experience with tubes but they do have a reputation for soft, muddy inarticulate bass. I read Ralph's post on this and I believe it 100%. I have no choice. So I'm assuming (guessing) that that effective df of 20 is more likely to be achieved with an amp that has a very high published capability? Who cares what that number is as long as it represents the amp's potential to deliver the goods, so to speak. Are you suggesting that an ss amp capable of optimally controlling the speaker will have a downside effectively cancelling out it's benefit?
Well I've got some serious comparisons to make now. More like research. Not sure what to think.
Another thing I've noticed about amps is that the better they are, the higher the volume you can tolerate. Although this stands to reason, it's especially significant among higher end ones since you would not expect there to be an issue with fatigue. But it seems to be the non-fatiguing ones that can be comfortably turned up to realistically live volumes for a long time. Those amps coincidentally also always seem to have great specs and they always sound good. I suppose they're the honest ones.
I can still hear you! But my experience has been that the good ones don't leave your ears ringing. Of course there's a limit to everything. However I never turn the amp up to clipping. It's surprising how big an amp you can tolerate following this rule. Soon as the it starts clipping you lose everything anyway so what's the point?