How much difference does a phono preamp really make?

It does, but before you will buy more expensive phono stage you’d better upgrade your cartridges (especially Denon). The most significant difference is a cartridge matched to GR tonearm and your phono stages. 

Cartridge and its stylus profile, cantilever, coil wire, overall design is the most important in analog chain, even with very cheap preamp the difference is huge and everyone can hear it immediately (I played records with different cartridges for my non audiophile friends, everyone can hear the difference)!

In your situation it can be a difference between average cartridge and great cartridge, when you are comparing average cartridges they are all the same (aka nothing special).

I have many different cartridges (MC, MM, MI) and 4 different phono stages including Gold Note PH-10 (mentioned by you). Discovering a new cartridge is a pleasure, I do not change phono stages that often (it would be crazy) !

Better phono stage will not make your average cartridges any better. You have to start with a cartridge.

And BTW you can’t even change the stylus on your cartridges by yourself when they are worn, so you’d better think about better cartridges. Once yours are worn after 500-700 hrs, you’re done with them. Your new phono stage can’t help you with worn stylus. Sell your cartridges (before it’s too late) and buy much better cartridge.

My advice is to start your upgrade path with a cartridge (MM or MI with user replaceable stylus with advanced profile and better cantilever than aluminum), you will upgrade your phono stage later anyway.

When I bought my first serious MM cartridges for Technics turntable my phono stage was $500 Grado PH-1 and my average cartridge was Grado. My better cartridge was Technics EPC-205c mk4 and the difference between Grado MI and Technics MM was HUGE on my old Grado PH-1 phono stage, then I upgraded load resistors to Vishay Naked Foil (100k Ohm) and it was another upgrade! Later over the years I bought more turntables, cartridges and more phono stages (headamps, SUTs etc).

An amazing MM cartridge can be found for $700-1000, this is the price for a basic phono stage, better phono stage normally cost $1500-2500 and what it can make for an average cartridge is to show all the flaws of such cart.

JLTi mk5 from Australia is great new phono stage for reasonable price. Highly competitive with higher priced Gold Note PH-10. I have both.

The question is what phono stage, not all phono stages are good, not every higher priced phono stage is better than lower priced phono stage. Sometimes they charge for usability, but not for the quality. 

Tube phono stages are more problematic, because tubes are noisy, especially for low output MC cartridges. 

Solid State phono stages are different too, but they last forever, tubes are like cartridges - you can use them only for certain amount of time. 

It’s impossible to "read" the groove correctly with a conical stylus (and elliptical stylus is not the best), if you can’t pick up the information (music) from the groove correctly then no phono stage will help you, no matter what price.

1) Vinyl Record is the source of music.

2) Cartridge (stylus tip) is the one and only device that actually touch the record and "read the groove" (read the source).

Everyone should have a great cartridge first and then everything else on equal level.

Always start with a cartridge, not vise versa. This is the first and most important component in analog chain.

** read and watch this and that at least.

The fact the cartridge is the only contact in the groove makes EVERYTHING after it that much more important to not harm such a tiny signal.

This is irrelevant for MM and MI cartridges with output from 1.5 to 5 mV.

Stylus profile and overall cartridge design is the most important. OP’s turntable is TECHNICS GR with fully adjustable tonearm , you know, It’s perfect turntable/tonearm to mount and use a better MM/MI cartridge with advanced stylys profile and cantilever (and more involving sound). Next step is everything else (can take entire life).


All MC cartridges must be avoided by newbies (they can only cause more problems). Great MM/MI are far better than average MC. Denon 110 is average MC, ClearAudio is rebadged cheap Audio-Technica. 

You just said the pre is not a concern with Mm or Mi . Thats BS. Pure BS....regardless of output..nonsense. A better phono pre makes any cartridge sound better that can be better.

You are free to start from the other side, if you’re using average cartridge you can upgrade your phono preamp, but your limit is a cartridge (limit in frequency response, distortion, channel separation, clarity, resolution, tracking ability etc). You can’t do anything about it upgdaring a phono stage!

It’s like trying to play badly recorded vinyl and blame your phono stage, but the problem is SOURCE.
If the vinyl is OK next step is CARTRIDGE (not phono stage).

When we have a decent phono cartridge then a phonostage is definitely very important, because a decent cartridge reproduce what’s on the record correct.

Look at OPs cartridges first!

Trouble is you only and always push your ownership bias on all others here.

This is a common sense, nothing else.

The Technics is your idea of best, not mine and many many others agree. Its just a subjective choice that to many doesnt sound right. The arm...Ive heard better on that exact table. Reason why many swap it out...they know..not opine blindly. How many do you own ? Im guessing none. I kept one for 6 months . Good table not my sense of natural analog sound.

I don’t care about it at all, BECAUSE THE OP’S TURNTABLE IS TECHNICS and he asked for a phono stage, not for another turntable, try to understand it (my personal choice doesn’t matter, and my turntables are two Luxman PD-444, not Technics).

If Technics is red flag for you then try to understand that OP is already the owner of Technics.

Please stop with the imperialistic opinions that if you dont own it or approve its bad and everyone else shouldnt either. Surprirised your not ranting about belts too. Whats wrong with Newbes and MC’s. I know plenty who started there with no problem...

I only post about something I own (or owned in the past 7 years). I posted many times why an MC is not good for a newbie, first problem is low output and as a result there is a noise, second problem is re-tipping process and very short life span of such cartridge in general (especially with average stylus profile). Main problem for a newbie is that he can accidentally damage the cantilever or stylus and then it’s over. It happens.

All these problems are irrelevant for MM or MI cartridges, because the stylus is user replaceable and available separately, no hum or noise with an average phono stage, and the sound is just like master tape with a decent MM or MI.


Personally I like LOMC cartridges too, but I am not a newbie and I have tried and owned over 50 different cartridges in the last 7 years (new high-end and vintage high-end), including some of the best LOMC, MM, MI.

Regarding Technics turntables: I know them very well, using them for over 25 years, the last one was SP-10mkII. But I still have two upgraded SL1200mkII in my second system and I test my cartridges using those decks with headphones. In my main system I have much better turntables and tonearms (Reed 3p, FR64s and FR66fx, Lustere 801, Denon, Ikeda ... ).

But when a person (who own Technics) asking for advice I believe I know what I’m talking about.

The OP cartridges like Denon 110 MC is the worst part in his analog chain, not his phono stages! Logically it’s nice to start with a better cartridge in this situation (it’s also cheaper start with more noticeable results). Because if you will start with a phono stage the cartridge will be like a bad filter between the source and phono stage and a lot of information will be missing and will not be delivered to the phono stage (even if it will be a top phono stage on earch)! This is why upgrading a phono stage (if necessary) is next step after upgrading a cartridge!

If you brain work different it’s not my problem @has2be



NOW LET ME QUOTE THE OP:

Sorry for the noob question...

I have a Technics SL1200-GR turntable with two cartridges; a Denon DL110 and a Clearaudio Performer. I also have two phono stages; a Consonance PM6 and the internal phono stage in my Belles Aria integrated.

I see a weak link and it’s Denon DL110 MC cartridge.
I see another weak link and it’s ClearAudio MM cartridge with unprotected aluminum cantilever with Elliptical tip without ability to change the stylus by user, cartridge generator made by Audio-Technica, but the output of this cartridge is not a problem for OP’s phono stages!

Better cartridge will change everything in his system in my opinion, without upgdading of the phono pre.