how make your speker faster


speakers AYON DRAGON-S
How i can make that speaker a little "faster" or more dynamic ?
Does some sort of spikes will help to move the sound in the direction of faster ?
Are any other method maybe help here like the vertical angle of the speaker?
An experiences or suggestions ?

Thanks

Robert
dontknow

Showing 6 responses by johnnyb53

Every component in the signal chain has a rise time. The longer the rise time, the slower the signal transfer. It's true that there are faster components, amplifiers and interconnects, but all of them are way faster than speakers because they are only subject to bandwidth issues whereas speakers are also subject to physics--mass acceleration and deceleration.

Very fast components and cabling can improve the sense of speed somewhat. For example, if you have ultrawide bandwidth components (such as Spectral) with cabling to match, you *will* hear an improvement in speed and clarity. Better speaker seating and platforming helps too. But ultimately the speed is limited by the speakers. The acceleration of speaker cones is much slower than electronic signals. So far the only speaker that can produce a credible square wave (which is primarily dependent on rise time and controlled ringing/overshoot) is the Quad electrostatic.

Still, many new speakers use very light and responsive diaphragms with much more powerful magnets to improve speed. Also, an increasing number of tweeters are very fast, with beryllium deposit, plasma, or ribbon tweeters with frequency response out to 40-60KHz (indicative of excellent rise time).

The price of fast speakers has come down considerably. Consider the GoldenEar products that use a folded ribbon tweeter and a very fast cone midrange, priced from $800-3K/pair, and the Monitor Audio Silver series with CCAM (composite ceramic aluminum magnesium) drivers and the Gold series with ribbon tweeters. The newer speakers with lighter drivers and more powerful magnets will do more to impart speed than an upstream upgrade.

08-24-12: Unsound
There are a few other speakers that can produce a "credible square wave".
I should have said "The only speaker I know of offhand that can produce a credible square wave..."

Since it's the only one I know of, I'm interested in other products that do it--I wouldn't be too surprised if other full-range electrostats could do it such as Soundlab, Martin-Logan, and Sound King.

08-25-12: Unsound
Some other speakers that can produce a credible square wave include: Ohms with genuine Walsh drivers, Dunlavy's, Green Moutains, Thiels, Vandersteens, perhaps others too.
I've seen excellent step responses in Stereophile test reports of phase-correct speakers by Dunlavy, Thiel, and Vandersteen) Is there a correlation between a speaker's step response and its square wave response?

08-26-12: Unsound
Keep in mind that the Quads that can produce a credible square wave do so due to the concentric wiring that disperses the wave form in a timely manner.

... and that's what's demonstrated by good step response. Perfect step response shows one impulse that then slopes down uniformly as the sound decays. Scroll down on this page for the step response of the Quad ESL-2805, followed by its square wave response.

Now here are measurements for the Dunlavy Signature SC VI, an all-dynamic loudspeaker. Notice how similar its step response is to the Quad.

For contrast, here's the measurements page for the highly regarded Revel Ultima Salon 2. Notice what a convoluted mess it is, and this is more typical of step responses of multi-way dynamic loudspeakers. Even the Wilson Maxx doesn't do that kind of step response. I think at a minimum it requires all drivers to be in phase and nothing but first order crossovers (6 dB per octave).

Other examples of good step response: Thiel SC-4 and Vandersteen Model Seven.

08-27-12: Inpepinnovations
Thanks Al, I guess all that process control math (Laplace transforms etc.) has conditioned me (I have a Chemical Engineering degree)to only think in the frequency domain. :)

And that, I think, is where some of the communication breakdowns occur in discussions of audio. So many of the audio tests are oriented toward *sound* and fundamental audiology irrespective of musical values such as timing and expressiveness. For example, since human frequency response disappears at around 20 Khz, many think that any engineering to widen the bandwidth out to 100-150 Khz is an unnecessary expense. But if you examine square wave response along with frequency response curves, you find that bandwidth (a frequency consideration) affects risetime (a timing and clarity consideration).

Another thing I've noticed is that there are often measurements of amplitude range (e.g., s/n ratio, headroom, sensitivity, power handling), but not measurements of amplitude *resolution*--how small the increments of source amplitude can be resolved. This translates into the musical values of expression and nuance.
Back to the original question:
speakers AYON DRAGON-S
How i can make that speaker a little "faster" or more dynamic ?
Does some sort of spikes will help to move the sound in the direction of faster ?
Are any other method maybe help here like the vertical angle of the speaker?
An experiences or suggestions ?
Well, once again we have an OP who poses a question with far-reaching ramifications with a minimum of information on salient factors, which touches off a flurry of responses touting a wide variety of suggestions, theories, and solutions with no further response or clarification from the OP.

And I was so eager to dispense my brand of "wisdom" that I didn't even notice the speakers in question: Ayon Dragon-S, a 132-lb full-range floorstander with a ring radiator tweeter with response out to 40K, claimed sensitivity of 94.5dB, and a retail price around $36K/pair. Yet the OP wants more speed and dynamics? One would think you'd get that for $36K, especially with that treble extension and sensitivity.

So at this point unless the Ayon Dragon-S is an overpriced dog (which I doubt), then it seems that just about everything else must be wrong with this setup--room size, speaker positioning, speaker platforming (or spiking or whatever), cabling, electronics, room treatments, you-name it.

The thing is, the OP posed this scenario and walked away, leaving us to vainly chase our tails. I'm not playing anymore unless the OP returns and clarifies.