The answer is that you would also be breaking the signal return path. I thought so, but it was unclear to me what the audible results would be, which the rest of your answer describes very nicely. Thanks, Al. While the hazards of using unshielded interconnects make sense to me (particularly when they are unbalanced), my experience has been that I like the sound of unshielded interconnects. I'm currently using unshielded interconnects from Morrow, but I have also used ones from Kimber and Anticables. Like other listeners, I have experienced an "openness" with unshielded designs that is appealing to me. I'm not saying you can't get that with shielded designs, but I haven't had much luck finding it, except for a $2k+ pair of Synergistic cables that I owned for a while. I'm not suggesting that unshielded cables sound inherently better than shielded ones. Just that I've had a easier time finding the sound I was looking for with unshielded designs, at least among more affordable cables. This could, of course, be an artifact of a small sample size. And, FWIW, I have also experienced a similar improvement in "openness" going from a heavily shielded PC to a lightly shielded PC on my preamp, as reported by Lokie. Bryon |
What do you guys mean by "dead quiet"? Niacin - I mean (1) With the system turned on and no music playing, with the preamp volume in the maximum position I ever make use of, no noise is audible at the listening position; and (2) With the system playing music at my average listening volumes, with a good recording, during moments of silence between passages, the system sounds indistinguishable from being off. 4est and Elizabeth - You make a good point about shielding being more important in some environments than others. I've just been wondering if those environments are not as ubiquitous as manufacturers of exclusively shielded cables would lead us to believe, which brings me to... Lokie - That Cardas video was exactly one of the examples I had in mind of a manufacturer advocating the exclusive use of shielded designs. Al - Thanks for your excellent input. I looked at the linked paper, and I have a stupid question. Here's a passage from the paper: To eliminate hum, we must effectively eliminate interchassis ground current. We could eliminate it by simply breaking the chassis to chassis shield connection. Of course, this alone would not solve our problem. Here's the stupid question: Why? What would happen if you "simply [broke] the chassis to chassis shield connection" in an effort to eliminate interchassis ground current? Thanks, Bryon |
One would need 2 identical cables, the only difference being shielded vs non, in order to make a reasonable comparison. Hi Tholt - This is a good point, and I agree that comparing two cables that differed only in the presence/absence of shielding would be an informative test. But I don't know that it's the only possible source of information about the typical characteristics of unshielded designs. It seems to me that, for any category of component, whether it be cables, amps, speakers, or whatever, there are at least some generalizations to be made about the typical characteristics of a particular design approach. Hence the countless generalizations that are routinely made about SET amps, electrostatic speakers, passive preamps, or whatever. Many of those generalizations are the subject of some controversy, and nearly all of them have various exceptions, but that does not diminish the value of those generalizations as heuristics for sharing and developing communal knowledge. What I'm trying to say is that I believe that useful generalizations can often be made about the typical characteristics of a particular design approach, even in the absence of carefully controlled experiments. Of course, I could be wrong about "openness" being a typical characteristic of unshielded cables. It would be interesting to hear from other folks who use them, to see if they have noticed something similar. Bryon |
...how would you isolate the general characteristics directly due to shielding, or lack thereof? Tholt - I agree with you that the best way to know this would be to have two cables of identical design, except one shielded and the other unshielded. An even better experiment would be to have several pairs of cables of varying designs, each pair consisting of a shielded and an unshielded version. That would be a good way to determine if "openness" were a typical characteristic of unshielded cables. Having said that, I arrived at this (admittedly tentative) conclusion through a different route: I owned a number of unshielded cables. Other than the fact that they were all unshielded, the cables varied in design (copper/silver, stranded/solid core, single wire/multiple runs, different terminations, etc.). Because the absence of shielding was the only design feature they all seemed to have in common, I was inclined to conclude that their common characteristic of "openness" was attributable to the absence of shielding. But I recognize that this conclusion could easily be wrong. I tend to think of "openness" as correlating with upper treble extension. For a line level interface, what would maximize upper treble extension (or at least minimize any degradation of it) would be low cable capacitance... Al - In light of this, are there any generalizations about the typical effects of shielding on cable capacitance? Does shielding diminish capacitance? And I should add that, while the characteristic of "openness" is partly a matter of high frequency extension, I feel like there's more to it. I don't exactly know how to describe what the "more to it" is, except to say that the sound of "openness" is also a matter of PRaT and imaging. I wish I could be more precise about it - I recognize that "openness" is a metaphor, and a rather vague one at that. Bryon |
Al - In my last post, I should have wrote: Does shielding INCREASE capacitance?
Bryon |
No, I don't think any such generalizations can be made, Bryon. Many shielded interconnects having low or very low capacitance are available from Cardas, Nordost, and Blue Jeans, among others. Unshielded interconnects with similarly low capacitance are available from Kimber and Nordost, among others. That's what I figured, Al. Otherwise life would be too simple. How to know if a cable is shielded.
Well, usually you can just LOOK at a picture of the cable. Most interconnects that are shielded are coaxial, a smooth round cross section. Most non-shieded are just wires, usually woven or twisted together. Elizabeth - Although this is often true, like with the Kimber PBJ you mentioned, it's worth noting that some unshielded interconnects still have sleeving, and so don't have the appearance of bare wires. Morrow cables are an example. All of my power cables are fully shielded with shield grounded. That is absolutely necessary for the amps I am using. All other wires are completely bereft of any insulation save for 2 ml. Muralman - Having some cables shielded but not others seems to me to be a good compromise, since, for any 2 cables that are close enough to potentially contaminate each other, it seems like only one of them would need to be shielded to prevent it. My system has a similar arrangement, but I arrived at it more or less by accident. Bryon |
...the Speltz is a tightly wound small gauge wire with a no-see-um negative wire running through. Being as the two carriers are at an almost right angle to each other, I think they would be more influenced by external electromagnetic forces rather than self contaminating. Hi Muralman - I wasn't trying to say anything about the design of the Anticable I/Cs, or their vulnerability to internal/external noise. Sorry if that was unclear. I was trying to say that, like you, I have some shielded cables (digital interconnects, power cables) and some unshielded cables (analog interconnects, speaker cables), and that this arrangement, at least in my case, results in a system that is more or less dead quiet. So I was trying to suggest that shielding some cables, but not others, might be an effective way to reduce inter-cable contamination (e.g., power cables to interconnects, or vice versa), without having to shield everything. Bryon |
What are your thoughts on (Synergistic´s) active shielded cables?
Hasse - I owned Synergistic's top-of-the-line Apex interconnects for a few months. At least for me, Synergistic's active shielding worked as advertised. With the Apex cables in the system, backgrounds became spooky quiet. I didn't keep them because, in my system, they didn't have a natural tonal balance. Of course, YMMV. Bryon |
