How does the Technics SL 1200 compare with....

Really, the Technics is a cheaper starting platform than the other two. You can get an SL1210 Mk2 from Musicians Friend for $399.99 here. That's almost in the price range of a P1 or MMF 2.1. Remember, the P3 is $685. For that money you could get the SL1210 Mk2 plus KAB's fluid damper and threaded clamp mods.

The platforming you mention (thick slab of wood with Vibrapods or Isoblocks) is essential for moving the SL12x0 'tables up into their potential. To that I'd add a Sumiko headshell to increase tonearm/headshell rigidity and use its azimuth feature to optimize cartridge angle. Now it can handle a wide variety of cartridges, both in weight and compliance.

The big inherent advantage of the MMF5 and Rega P3 is their tonearms. The big inherent advantages of the Technics are speed accuracy, low motor noise, close tolerances, build quality, and ergonomics. You can narrow the gap in tonearm performance with the KAB fluid damper and Sumiko headshell.

Or you can eliminate the tonearm gap this way: Start with the SL1210 Mk2 for $400 and order Origin Live's Technics armboard adapter (about $70 here) and an OL-1 tonearm (about $240 here or here). Your total price (plus shipping) is $710, which gives you the Technics drive system and ergonomics with essentially a rebadged Rega RB250 tonearm.

That's a mere $25 over the P3 and you have well-mapped upgrade paths available--from KAB for the turntable (outboard PS, threaded clamp, strobe lamp disabler, Isonoe Footers) and Origin Live for the tonearm (structural mod w/tungsten counterweight, tonearm rewire, and slotted armtube).

08-16-07: Ghosthouse
jmoog08 -
I was looking at the same TTs as you are now. I contacted a well respected on line retailer. The guy I talked to had a VPS Scout...he recommended the Technics from KAB. His store didn't eve carry Technics. That impressed me. I ordered a pretty heavily optioned SL1210M5G this past winter along w/KAB mod'd. Stanton audiophile stereohedron tip cart.

Given that the VPI Scout is considered the price/performance leader at $1650 (bolstered by Art Dudley's review in S'phile where he said the Scout whaps it out of the park [in its price class] so far it isn't even funny), it makes me wonder, given your dealer's recommendation, whether the SL1200 can be better than even *I* think, and I own one. I haven't listened to a Scout, but I know they're very highly regarded and appear to be very well built. I wonder what all a KAB-modded SL12x0 can
do by comparison.

I have to say, I get just tons of musical enjoyment out of my SL 1210 M5G. Always did, but the tweaks and cartridge/headshell improvements have resulted in an outsized increase in enjoyment. I'm going to get a fluid damper soon. Should be interesting.

Things changed when I heard the P3... and it is belt driven TTs from then on for me....

How do you know it was the belt? Maybe it had more to do with the more inert platter, the plinth material, isolation, or damping, or that RB300 tonearm? Perhaps there was a better arm/cartridge compliance/resonance match.

But of course, the Technics is basic enough for the general masses.

Perhaps you found it easy to listen through the P3's speed accuracy issues, which may be good enough for the general masses, ;-) but not for me, as 1% speed inaccuracy is simply unacceptable for a Count Basie fan.

I've now lived with a Technics SL1210 for 6 months and I can say with confidence that the disdain for its direct drive and S-shaped tonearm w/detachable headshell is misdirected.

The biggest problem with the Technics SL12x0 turntables is that they're based on a 1979 understanding of isolation, damping, and vibration control.

The good news is that the Technics SL12x0 turntables are practically a gift ($399.99) when it comes to build quality, speed accuracy, and quietness, because the isolation/damping/vibration control issues are not hard or expensive to fix.

Platform it on a thick slab of maple or butcher block supported by vibration-absorbing footers, get a Sumiko headshell and a serious 21st century mat, and get back to me, and don't forget how little you spent.

08-20-07: Shsohis
I'm currently using 1) Nottingham Spacedeck, VDH silver mod OL RB300 arm, Ortofon Rondo Bronze...

For about $1750, you could have a Technics SL1210 mk2 with KAB outboard PSU, Origin Live armboard, and their OL Silver tonearm. The combo would have wow and flutter around .01 to .025% and a weighted rumble figure of -78dB tops.

Would it sound the same as the Nottingham? No, but the differences would be a matter of taste and preferences. Would it sound as good? At least.

08-21-07: Lg1
Just thinking that, if these modified SL-1200s are as great as touted, someone should seize the marketing moment and get a mass distribution thing going to coincide with the recent resurgence in vinyl. Sure there's a few aging 'Boomers here and there who'd prefer their LP-12s, Spacedecks, and the like on the strength of snob appeal alone, but a $1750-ish (??) table that bests designs costing five times that should sell like....well....commensurately with its reputation.

According to Mike Fremer's column in the August Stereophile, Zu Audio was thinking of doing just that, but have apparently backed off from any production intentions.

I suspect (or heard) that there is too much handwork in the modifications to make it cost-effective. Fremer reports that the the Zu boys claimed their mods made the SL 1200 "world class."

Also, currently Panasonic is making and selling about 88,000 of these units per year, in their premier Japanese facility, and to very close tolerances. The SL12x0 family of turntables is the biggest-selling audio component of all time, with more than 3 million of them manufactured and sold. They may well be making all they can to the standards that they hold.

Still, I see your point. Kevin certainly provides that service of converting SL 12x0s into high-end 'tables, but two additional services might be mounting the Origin Live (or his own) arm board and an RB-based or compatible tonearm, and putting together a truly optimized platform.

08-22-07: Tvad
I have spoken with Kevin about this, and he is adamant about not replacing the stock Technics arm. He makes a good argument for leaving it as is....

Thanks, Tvad. I'm actually in favor of leaving the stock tonearm and getting the fluid damper mod. It's certainly less expensive, and you retain the convenience features of removable headshell and very slick VTA adjustment.

What I'd like to know is what are Kevin's arguments in favor of retaining the stock arm? It sounds like he feels that it actually works and sounds better.

I was just thinking, although at first glance an S-shaped tonearm might be less rigid than a tapered cylinder, wouldn't the S-shape actually make it *more* rigid in the horizontal plane?

Speaking of which, for all the attempts at explaining the performance of RB300 and similar tonearms, has anyone actually tested and quantified the stiffness of the Rega and the Technics in both the horizontal and vertical planes? Technics publishes their tolerances (1/2 micron) and friction (7 mg) specs on their tonearm bearings. Is there any similar info about the Rega or other unipivot one-piece tonearms?