How do I "compromise" speaker placement

Hello, do yourself a favor and search Real Traps bass traps and the Room EQ Wizard at Home Theater Shack. Use the EQ Wizard and do a graph of your romm and post the results on the site and you will recieve all types of suggestions and go from there. It will be the easiest way for you to tune your system with room tratments or without room treatments or with EQ. You need to do your research there.
Bob

Hell, Hi Dcstep, you said, "Most people think that you can measure your way to the best placement, but it doesn't work. See the following thread for something that actually works:" Which has the following quote:

"Anyway, Rod accepted the challenge and “The Ballad of the Runaway Horse” soon filled the room. I could attempt to reveal the whole process, but that would be futile. I witnessed the whole thing, start to finish, and actually helped a time or two and I couldn’t replicate it in a new speaker positions. I will say that he started with the bass, beginning with the speakers just a couple of inches from the rear wall and then moving them out an back while listening to the nodes. He worked the left speaker first, and then the right, focusing on getting the bass balanced between the two speakers, but with no nasty nodes in the midrange. Toe-in and rake angle were critical to the midrange and balance, but I think that getting the bass right and avoiding the midrange nodes was the single most important factors. Still, it’s a comprehensive system that you’re not going to be able to read about and then do. Listening and hearing the nodes takes some training. I was amazed to hear MAJOR changes with just ¼” of movement."

What do you think is wrong with measuring an in room response of your system? If moving the speakers as a Master Sumiko dealer does to find the best freq response in a room, why not do it by a REW measurement? Do you believe he would be doing something different? I mean, that, if we both agree that moving speakers changes the inroom response by going in and out of nulls and peaks and yes, some have a percieved better or worse sound position by just this fact, why not just measure it and use your ears for the position you prefer. But at least this way you know where the nulls and peaks are through an analysis of your room. Plus it is free and repeatable.

Then, Dave, all you have to do is go for 83db playback level! You just knew I had to throw that in! But please ignore that issue to not confuse everyone.

Bob

Hi Dave, Have you ever done an in room response of you room?
The ultimate answer to this issue is bass traps. The last approach is EQ after all room treatment is exhausted by either aesthetic reasons, AAF (audiophile acceptance factor, we can't blame it all on "the wife")or WAF.

As far as IM distortion, "how it sounds", freq extensions etc. that is all up to the system and its owner desires. I believe the better the in room response becomes (and you dont need to hire a "Master Set" as you can do this yourself with REW) the better. Even the worst speakers deserve this. You paid for the speaker, why not get all you can from them, whether you like the speakers or your equipment is "good enough" is another story. A tape measure tells you nothing, except that speakers should be (obviously) set within the room and seating position within a "1/4 inch" or some such.

Moving your speakers 1/4 inch can make a big difference in sound, and this can be measured.
Bob

Hi Newbee said, "BTW, if you do this, buy some graph paper and keep careful notes of your set up distances - it can get a little complex trying to keep all of these in your head, as it will also give you some visual clues about what you can change, cannot change, and whether its lspeakers or listening position that is causing the issues you like or dislike.'

I say, just download the Room EQ Wizard for FREE and you dont need graph paper just click and save the measurements. Also 1/3 octave test tones are not enough, you need much finer measurements than that to really see what is going on in your room.

Hi Dave, you said "Until you minimize IM distortion you can't enjoy your system to the max, no matter how flat the EQ. My method is set the speakers first, for the best combination of low IM Distortion and minimal bass nodes, then start addressing any problems that remain with room treatments and/or active EQ."

I know what IM distortion is, but what are you talking about? How are you adressing IM distortion with your speakers placement? Or are you talking about IM distortion in equipment?

Bob

Hi Dave, Thanks for the answer regarding IM distortion. Is this associated with phase? Such as main speaker to sub?
Bob

Hi Dave, you said, " It's easiest to imagine thinking of a mono signal through a stereo system. It'll come equally out of each speaker, so time alignment of the two speakers must be precise or you hear an inbalance and/or a smearing."

You you are saying then, that the first issue to address is exact measurement of speaker to ear distance and extrapolating that out, probably exact placement of speakers and listener within the room? To avoid odd arrival time of the original sound and reflected sound.

Is that correct?

Bob