In acoustic reverberation TIME must be controlled not eliminated completely...
This "rocket" science is called acoustic...
Getting rid of reverbs kind of important.
It's not rocket science
How do I know if my systems any good?
I'm not able to leave my house due to a long-standing injury, so I'm unable to hear anyone else's system. I could list out my components but not sure what that would achieve. Lets assume they're all fine pieces.
what are the things that should be considered when listening and judging an audio system that combines streaming and home theater via bypas thru a preamp.
Maybe it's a great system.
Showing 14 responses by mahgister
The only magical thing that help me creating my room and even understanding my new headphone is basic acoustic... most people think that electrical engineering is more important than acoustic then they look at the price tag of amplifier, tubes or not, and they are not even wrong, electrical engineering matter... But without acoustic basic and listening experiments, people dont even know what is a "sound source" and what is "listerner envelopment" , these two factors ratio, ASW and LV are technical term in acoustic... And the timbre experience cannot be recreated in a room if we dont even know what timbre is acoustically by experiments and a concept in acoustic about it and then the way to play with it in varying experiments ... Listening experiments will not give you "perfection" as marketing design promises do, they will give you the more precious gift of SATISFACTION, acoustically and personnally... Most basically good amplifier will work well in a very good acoustic room, none do well in a bad room because you cannot even evaluate the component in a fair way... Especially speakers... Without acoustic basic my own headphone cannot be figured it out and then cannot be optimized ...It is a complex hybrid headphone with a dual acoustic chamber in the shell... It takes me 6 months of listening experiments to optimize it.. Are tubes necessary? Not at all, some S. S, can rival tubes amp...But tubes amp differ of each other as S. S. amp differ.. There is no rule but synergetical electrical compatibility and then listening experiments.. But it takes the right amplifier , tubes or not, for this particular speakers or this particular headphone ...
All that boils down to extensive listening experiments and acoustic basic to guide us with specific concepts behind the audio vocabulary , without which most people as chicken with their head cutted, walk foolishly from an upgrade to another without figure out what they miss and what is wrong and what they need .. I know because i was like that 10 years ago in the beginning of my audio journey with no components and no money... Now i only listen music , my audio journey is : mission accomplished...With my past acoustic room or now with my headphone.. It does not takes money, in the opposite, sometimes money and price tag, fool people with costly system which are not so great because they dont know what acoustic means and they are passive consumers instead of being fun player in acoustic experiments and study ... I checked a dude on youtube with a million dollars bucks system horribly implemented in an empty room... my system value is 600 bucks... i laugh because my soundfield seems way better even through youtube and in an indirected way... But there is other very well installed system way better than mine but better not so better than i would kiil myself to buy them... Sound experience is like anything: there is a minimal threshold of quality performance and an optimal threshold...My actual system is between these too...Inferior to all costly optimal one for sure, but believe me way less far from them than what you could think... Why? Because acoustic basic knowledge tell me why and how... |
My audio system 10 years ago sound like this :
I will add because it is important and was not in this list : unnatural artificial timbre
Now after my acoustic listenings experiments :
Then rule number one : Buy basic good component... It is a hard job to figure it out if you dont want to pay a heavy load of money... The rule number two is harder: You must read about acoustic and make simple experiments in the mechanical ( vibration control) and in the electrical dimension ( low noise floor) ¸And especially in acoustical relation between speakers and room... If you dont obey rule two sorry but you will fall for the upgraditis neurosis or worst for a life of audiophile frustration... but if money is not a problem you will buy a 50,000 bucks system and call it the best in the world but you will never know... But me i know WHY my 600 bucks system is one of the best in the ratio S.Q./price scale... |
My end game i own it and cost me 600 bucks... And i dont say it is an endgame lightly... It lack nothing... It is an headphone system for sure now... It can be improved at the cost of adding between 10,000 and 15, 000 bucks and would became then competition for most high end system... I dont understand the fixation on the gear price ... Acoustic and psycho-acoustic experiments matter way more than investment in costly high end gear... At least in the S.Q./price scale ratio... |
Thanks for your kindness my friend...
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All of what you said is right... But your forgot to mention that nevermind our different tastes, nevermind our different histories, we can all understood what is a good soundfield when we meet and immerse in it, as you rightfulle said BUT you forgot to mention that there is a reason why? but you guess it right... There is an objective reason... Acoustic is the reason why... And acoustic has nothing vto do with taste... The same reason by which audio science progress, not only in engineering is acoustic and psych-acoustic experiments ...As the revolutionary Choueri BACCH filters for example or the tuned resonators grid in my headphone... All audiophile vocabulary express something about audio component experience which is subjective.... But acoustic science is objective facts and psycho-acoustic too and help to understand our experience and putting concept on it.Then help us to design simple listening experiments to improve what we already own BEFORE blindly upgrading it... Elementary very simple basic principle in acoustic guided me toward sonic heaven with listening experiments... Most audiophile ignore and dont bother themselves by experimenting with it and this is the main reason behind consumerism upgraditis and frustration,...Nothing else...
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You are right... I only say that it was not necessary to look for audible defects, they where in front of me without even asking me to look for them... I am a perfectionist for sound, bad sound destruct my experience..... But one day i reach my goal... After that upgrading is neurosis because "immersiveness" is not only a subjective experience but also an objective acoustical definable set of conditions which we can work to realize ... For me it is accomplished...
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I never look for defect in my different audio systems... They were all evidently not very good to start with... First we must buy the right components... But the job dont end there as most people erroneously think... It begin there...Any set of components must be optimized, if not the sound limitations will bother most people , at least me... Now i can look for music and never bother myself about sound... But i learned non stop for few years of listening experiments... I like Koran and chinese and japan musicians too ... 😊
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Very right and wise post thanks...
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Yes you are right it is all relative... But i must relativize your relativization .. 😊 I own the top headphone of the year 1978 and one of the top amplifier of this same year... My actual system after 6 months of listenings experiments is a top system... Not the best and i will not dare to compared it to 50,000 bucks Sennheiser orpheus headphone system... But i am not so far as to be frustrated at all... My system cost me 600 bucks all included... Then price tag, save at the two extrem of the scale means way less than people think in real S.Q. or are common place evident... One thing i know for sure , for the mean average audiophile investment under 25 ,000 dollars is enough ( for top of the world headphone listening for speakers perhaps a few thousand more) , i put the frontier just as an indication, not as a truth ;over 25,000 bucks the price tag means way less more than people think... I can demonstrate right now how one of the best system in the world can be put together and will cost around maXIMUM 20,000 BUCKS or less for headphone...Paying more will not improve this basic system save in a very marginal way... Knowledge is more important than price tag...And in a room acoustic knowledge is more important for the S.Q. than just price tag ... I can use three physicists who designed these 3 products to prove my point.... The best dac ever , with no contender is already here, and one of the best ever designed amplifier too... These two i dont own them, but cost around 15,000 bucks and may cost even less... i did not own these 2 products but I own already a good pair of top headphone with a very good amplifier .. Thanks for your post ... I wish you the best...
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I aimed to ectasy when sound disapear and only music stay... But it takes me 10 years to reach it... There is simple evident problem any audio forums can help to cure... But the hardest factors to solve is not so much a mere specific evident problem , but a tree of UNDETECTED problems because you cannot hear them or you cannot think about them anyway because they are not perceived and then you cannot even think about what to do first to optimize what seems to be an already good system without problem anyway... Most people stay there happy with what they own as it is right out of the box and it is OK... The only way i learned myself was by systematic listening experiments... A lot of them... Now i am in music listening with no more evident sound problem, and even if we can always improve for sure the sound, i am too deep in music ectasy to bother me with sound...But it takes me 10 years of buying gear to stumble on the right S.Q./price ratio gear ... And 2 years of intense acoustic experiments and many experiments in the mechanical , and electrical dimensions... Buying will never replace experiments listening experiments , around the basic mechanical, electrical and acoustical dimensions...Because optimization is not mere problem solving , it is experimenting with our ears... Audio experience is complex problems way over simple physics and engineeering, because psycho-acoustic play half the tune so to speak ...
The goal in audio for me is "immersiveness"... The way the listener is engulfed acoustically in the music/sound experience in 3-D with speakers and now in the last year with headphone because i lost my dedicated homemade acoustic room ... I just started a thread about "immersiveness" because most people dont know how to describe it to begin with and it is hard to describe anyway and to put all conditions together , then perhaps i will learn new things from others experiences ... 😊 In a word nobody can know if their system is good and more than just good without listening experiments ... Comparisons with other gear in other rooms help to for sure... But it is not enought at all... It is why most people conditioned by marketing judge sound experience by the price tag...It is way more difficult to experiments with what we already own than to just buying new costly upgrade ... But even gear upgrades are in need of listening experiments for the necessary optimization... And upgrade do not replace basic mechanical, electrical and acoustic facts and experiments... It is my experience... |