How competitive are you with your system?

@daveyf so what says you of systems that sound exceptional and great on audio recordings embedded in videos?

I let the sound of my systems speak for themselves. I never hesitate to let others hear their sound qualities, which can be discerned even through audio recordings of them embedded in YouTube videos. In my head, I know where their sound quality ranks & how it compares to others systems I have heard and it is always, in the words of the great Bad Brains, “I Against I”. 

@toddalin please post an audio recording/video of the same song playing on your system. Based on the result you may have to reconsider the part that mine in not great. Looking forward to listening to your system playing back this same track.

@toddalin  Ok I see. Try to find it on CD. He was a great singer and all his albums have gems. By the way, your system sounds very good. Better than many high dollar systems.

@toddalin I listened to the audio recording of your system playing Landslide and it sounds very, very good. The sound is very clear and you get the warmth & the extra harmonics from the “tube simulator” which adds body. You have a really nice sounding system.

Compare the sound of your system to the sound on the recording of this guy’s system, who has the top of the line Gryphon speakers & electronics, and the new $350K dCS Varese digital playback stack in a dedicated custom built “acoustically engineered” room:

Landslide on the Big Dig System

How does the sound of your $6k system compare to the sound on the recording of the over a $1 Million dollar room & system?

This post should be Tagged as a “teachable moment” for those that think that stereo systems’ audio sound quality is all about cost.
 

@toddalin I agree with Alex that you need to experiment with taming some of the forwardness of the midrange because at least to me the forward presentation would lead to quick listening fatigue.

@mihorn I have a Modwright Dalby Oppo-105D that I use in one of my other systems as a DAC for streaming. The Oppo players are and still sound very nice.

The other thing that I will mention is that to achieve greater inner detail, low level detail, nuance, and resolution you really need to work on the source material itself. You will not increase the inherent resolution downstream of the source. I know that @toddalin does not connect his system to a PC or streamer but he would really enjoy what HQPLAYER would do to the sound of his system.

@cleeds have you listen to the audio recordings of my OKTAN6 system that I shared with the group? How lossy do those sound, and if you extrapolate the level of compression & lossyness that you think is happening because of the YouTube encoding process the where does that land them or put them in terms of sound quality?

@isellgoodgear post a link to an audio recording of your system. Would love to hear what you are working with. I know that it is not the same as being in the room but it will at least give us a glimpse and a flavor of the quality of your playback system. With such confidence it must sound very special. Please share your pride with the rest of us through an audio recording of your system for us to hear.

@isellgoodgear that is always the easy way out. Have some confidence and put an audio recording out, we know that it is not 100% representative but at least if provides some information. I hope that you do realize that this hobby is based on the concept & belief that audio recordings do convey the sound recorded to a high degree of accuracy. Commercial sound recordings were done with lesser technology than what you have on your phone nowadays so don’t be surprised to find out the level of accuracy that even a cell phone audio recording will convey. All you have to do is capture the audio at the listening position and make an audio recording, embedded in the video. Have a little confidence. This hobby is about sound and not words. Anyone can type and post whatever they want on these threads. Have some conviction and post and audio recording recording of your system like I and others have done. You sound very confident with your words, now is time to back them up with some audio recordings of your system, if you dare to be confident with what you say you have there. Let’s hear it shall we?

@iselan I completely agree. I hope that @isellgoodgear  does not turn out to be like the guys on WBF that sit around all day and write & tell you about how great their latest and greatest cost is no object system sounds, but lack the confidence to make a simple audio recording from the listening position to share with others.

To lead by example, here are a few audio recordings of my OKTAN6 system from last weekend’s listening session for everyone to listen to, compare, and judge as they wish:

OKTAN6 System Audio Recordings

@isellgoodgear Let me be the judge of what I get out of your iPhone recording. See that is the whole point of sharing the audio recordings of one’s systems from the listening position, to overcome geographical differences. I personally would not want strangers lining up at my front door and making their way to my listening rooms and sitting in my listening chairs, but I do want them to get a glimpse of what I have been able to achieve if they are interested in hearing it. An audio recording of one’s system from the listening position overcomes the distance in our locations. It sounds like you are going to continue to hide behind your keyboard, like the majority of guys on WBF. Isn’t it ironic that in a hobby based on sound, you and others have chosen to convey how great your system sounds over written text words rather than through audio recordings? It is a real head scratcher to me that guys like you that go on forums and tell everyone how great & wonderful your system sounds but then lack the confidence to back it up and post a simple audio recording of their system from the listening position. What kind of logic is that? Such a great sounding system should at the very least sound stellar on an audio recording one would think. I know that it is not going to sound 100% like the sound in the room but it should sound close, at least the audio recordings of my systems do.

@devinplombier I just talking about shooting a video from the listening position but the minute you say “video” everyone gets dismissive really quick so I refer to them as “audio recordings embedded in the video”, because that is exactly what they are.

@devinplombier Why do think or speculate that the system audio recordings of my systems and of others don’t sound like trash? What makes our simple videos/audio recordings different than yours or anyone else’s? I assume that you have a current cell phone, but you can also use an external microphone with it if you want to. the BelieveInHifi guy uses expensive high-end professional studio microphones and equipment to make his system videos and to be honest to me the better equipment doesn’t tell me much more than the iPhone videos he posts first for comparison. We will never be able to make all variables equals so recording devices do not need to be, and usually never are, the same. The only thing that is crucial is that the audio recording/video be captured/shot from the listening position, or otherwise all comparisons and assessments are off.

@cleeds For your reference, I have two high-end studio grade mastering systems here at home so I’m quite intimately familiar with what goes on during the mastering process and the loss in audio quality suffer through the YouTube process is not that detrimental when you start with a highly resolving system and make a good quality recording of its sound at the listener’s sitting position. 

Let’s put your theory to the test and tell us how the audio recording embedded in the video is different than what you hear in the room. Use it to illustrate, highlight, and point out the differences in sound quality that you proclaim.

@cleeds You have taken. Y comments to the extreme. everyone knows that YouTube is a lossy media, but the sound conveys enough information to discern the quality of playback systems.

@toddalin You are spot on on your description of how audio recordings embedded in videos can be used to assess the sound quality of audio systems recorded from the listening position. You get it when most don’t. You understand exactly how to use the audio recordings as a tool.

By the way the $350K is just for the dCS Varese digital playback stack, that guy has sunk well over a million $USD into his room and stereo equipment.

@isellgoodgear Google carlos269 and mastering systems and you will see pictures of my SADIE DSD8 and Weiss BW-102 modular Harmonia Mundi Mastering Digital Audio Workstations (DAW), my Ed Meitner hand-built DSD ADC and DSD DAC units that Ed built for Sony for the development SACD and original SACD releases. you will see pictures of my Fairman (Denmark) mastering equipment and my 18-bit DASH archiving decks that Sony developed for archiving their recordings at the old Sony Classical Studios in New York, You will also see my mastering equip,ent that came directly from Sterling Sound mastering studios. Some of my mastering equipment has been used on platinum selling recordings.

Which brings me back to, if your system sounds so fabulous then why are you so afraid to share an audio recording of your system from the listening position that showcases how great your system sounds?

@vinylrestingplace There is a huge fallacy with that thinking. The variables between any two systems will NEVER be the same. All the systems that I have here at home are in different rooms and made up of different components. The reason that I’m able to compare them is because the ONLY thing that I care about is the resultant sound at the listening position and that is ALL that I care about and compare. NOTHING else matters to me, the ONLY think that matters and that should be compared is the resultant sound at the listening position. All of those other variables are inconsequential and fully baked into the resultant sound at the listening position. So don’t pay any attention to the room or any other variable, the ONLY thing that matters and that should be judged and compared is the resultant sound at the listening position. The variables will NEVER be all the same but that doesn’t matter as they are incorporated into the resultant sound and that sum of all variable sound is what one hears at the listening position and that resultant sound at the listening position is the only thing that should be judged and compared between systems.

@daveyf  How many different systems have you done the in the room versus audio recording embedded in video comparisons on? Have you even done it with your own system?

The interesting thing is that this entire hobby predicates on the concept of being able to capture sound on recordings accurately. I’m not sure how this can be true in the studio, outdoor venues, closets, backyards, and so on but not a reasonable expectation in our own listening rooms. Where does the audio recording of sound fall apart when it comes to capturing audio recordings accurately in our listening rooms but not anywhere else? Care to explain that to me?????

You see, if we concede on the premise that sound can be recorded and playback accurately then this whole hobby of ours falls apart. In order to want to playback and reproduce sound accurately, one must first have a belief and accept that sound can be captured and recorded accurately otherwise this whole thing just caves in and falls apart.

This isn’t some type of philosophical exercise. When you listen to a voicemail of a relative out in traffic or less optimal location can you still tell who that is on the recording. Some of the famous recordings were captured with a Shure SM-85 microphone in bathrooms and closets. What makes you discount all audio system in room recordings but accept the commercial recording you hear on the radio, those that you purchase or stream online, or the ones you listen to on your system?

@devinplombier So how do you explain the exceptional, great and outstanding sound quality of the audio recordings of my systems and those of others?

@isellgoodgear  I have already shown you mine. I guess that you are too shy to show yours. All kidding aside, next time I’m in the UK I may send you a message to see if I can come over to listen to that “perfect” system.

@daveyf The audio recordings embedded in the videos should be playback and listen to in near-field. When you playback the audio recordings embedded in videos in near-field, it allows you listen to and hear what the microphone (s) captured at the listening position. That is key, to use the same playback chain and to playback in near-field to make the comparisons.

Why don’t you post that audio recording of Miles Davis playing on your system that you received complements on?

@ronboco If you are able to host, give the public access to your server, then you can post the native recording from your phone. The reason people use YouTube is for 1) security reasons as you are not giving strangers access to your server and 2) because if the recordings being compared go through the same YouTube process then you are putting them on an even playing field.

@devinplombier You should NOT do what you did. By playing the recording back through your system you are doubling up on the room contributions which will have constructive and destructive interference. You need to listen to the recording either in near-field or over headphones, not recommended. Your process of playback used for comparison is very flawed so I’m not surprised at all by the discrepancies between the native playback and recording playback through the same system, and listened to at the listening position. You should listen to the recording in near-field preferably than over headphones because by listening to it near-field you will incorporate the Head-Related Transfer Function (HRTF). When you listen with headphones you skip/omit the HRTF and that will make the audio recording sound different, than what you would hear if you were sitting in the room at the listening chair/position.

To put yourself in the listening position as heard if you were there then listing to the recording in near-field is the only method.

@cleeds It is obvious that you have not listened to the audio recordings of my systems. The biggest takeaway from listening to them is the inner detail, low level detail, nuance, and resolution of the system’s sound qualities. I have highly resolving systems and that comes through in the audio recordings.

When I listen to the audio recordings embedded on videos I’m listening to the sound. If you notice, the image on the video doesn’t change throughout the recording and it isn’t all that interesting once you seen it.

You seem to be argumentative without any logic or substance. I support and back up my point of view by submitting audio recordings of my systems. You want to just be a contrarian for the hell of it. Why don’t you tell us about your system and how it sounds, and contribute something constructive for a change!

@cleeds  You may have thousands of posts here on Agon but as they say, it’s about quality not quantity. It is obvious that our understanding of audio recording, playback, and CODEC technologies are on different planes and what I’m stating is either not registering or you are simply not comprehending it. At this point we are in a circular argument going over the same information and you don’t seem to absorb it. My advice to you is to head over to WBF and join the herd there as they are of like minds and thinking. I have always loved learning from others that know more than I do, but obviously not everyone feels the same way. What more is there to be said on this subject between you and I? I post my audio recordings and let them speak for themselves, what more can I do to drive my point home to you? I’m getting tired of explaining things to you. If you don’t want to be clueless you need to realize that there is always room to learn.

@isellgoodgear   Interesting that you bring up this point as I used to remaster every recording in real-time during playback. So I was able to master the source material to my liking and replay it back. Every time you modify the source you reset what it actually sounds like; therefore I do know what the source material is supposed to sound like. Go back to the drawing board and try again.

@isellgoodgear Did I mentioned that I conceptualized, developed, designed, and implement a system to adjust the sound reproduction system’s transfer-function in real-time? Through the use of dynamic filtering in convolution decomposition I’m able to alter the sound signature of any system to match the owner’s sound quality attributes preferences. How do like them apples? Ever even thought of a concept like that?

Check out the system remastering real-time transfer function adjustment system that I developed for and implemented on my Wisdom Audio Adrenaline Rush (WAAR) based system.

Google “There is a smarter way” and “WAAR System”.

@devinplombier Sorry wrong again. First of all there is no system remastering real-time transfer function adjustment implemented on my OKTANG6 system, whose recordings I shared here.

Second of all the system remastering real-time transfer-function adjustment system that I developed and implemented on my WAAR system is 100% analog, it is all done in the analog domain so there is no DSP in the system.

After developing and implementing the real-time transfer-function adjustment system on my WAAR reference system I challenged myself to develop a new system for my OKTAN6 where I could fine tune the resultant sound by making adjustment through the adjustable transformer based crossovers, again it is all analog with no DSP involved.

What you hear in the audio recordings is the sound that the microphone captures at the listing chair position without any processing or adjustment. None is needed as the system really sounds phenomenal and that comes through even through the audio recordings embedded on videos and uploaded to YouTube.

You are in fact mixing two different systems based on two different concepts that I conceptualized, design, and implemented all on my own.

Sorry to disappoint you but most of my work is original and one-of-a-kind in nature.

@toddalin This is a perfect example of how to use the audio recordings as a tool for making adjustments to improve the sound of one’s system. This is exactly how I use the audio recordings. Well done.

@devinplombier That’s good to hear. Look forward to having intelligent conversations on all audio related things outside of the mainstream.

@daveyf  You audio recording of your system playing Miles Davis sounds very nice. It has that classic sound Janis was known for, nice smooth musical presentation. I really enjoyed that and can hear why you received so many complements. I would offer that recording of your old system as a good example of what a good system sounds like. Does your new system not sound as nice on audio recordings? By the way, the second audio recording I didn’t really care for as it sounded a bit stringent while at the same time lacking resolution. Thanks for sharing that. Would love to hear an audio recording of your current system playing the same Miles Davis track.

@isellgoodgear I agree, enough of the back and forth. You speak very confidently about the sound of your system and all I’m asking for is to make a quick audio recording of it playing one of the tracks that I share of my OKTAN6 system and share it with us. It only takes a few minutes to make the audio recording and to uploaded to YouTube. It will give me a a bit of glimpse of the quality of sound you got going on there and will let know if it is worth the visit next time I’m in the UK. I agree that talk is cheap and that is why I share audio recordings of my systems and you should do the same.

@isellgoodgear Out of curiosity, what is your system? Can you post a picture of it? Describe it? Now those things will tell us nothing of how it sounds but you speak so highly of it that I’m now curious to see what type of system you have. 
 

The audio records do tell you a lot. We have already seen it on this thread how audio recordings of his system helped a member in here make adjustments to refine the sound quality of his system. To me audio recordings of my systems are a very important tool in the system development process.

@isellgoodgear Ok good information. I have way to many systems and equipment to detail and list them all, but they are chronicled and described only. Just use goggle and you will find the details on my “OKTAN6”, “WAAR”, “Pinnacle”, and other of my systems.

@daveyf Depth and width of soundstage is a function of the playback speakers as well as the system’s audio recording so yes that is one of the things, along with imaging, that is hard to assess from these system videos as you cannot 100% attribute it to the audio recording, but “air” is well communicated and discerned from system’s audio recordings shot from the listening position. The key is to be consistent with the speakers that you are listening to any two system videos on.

@toddalin Agree. Tweaking and experimenting with what you have around to improve sound is a fun part of the hobby. I like building systems and I usually start with an idea in my head and then challenge myself to make it happen. The new systems concepts usually involve doing things smarter, against the grain, and counter the mainstream high end audio culture. When I started in this hobby in the 1980’s the audio scene was more like the DIY Audio Community and I find it hard to relate to what it has become, so many clueless participants with more money than brains who think they can achieve great sound by just paying for it. These days I feel more at home at DIYAudio and with custom built one-off and one-of a-kind components and systems than commercial offerings. I better stop ranting.

Agree. @ronboco system sounds really nice on both videos.