Spatialking,
Not sure if I completely agree with the power cord acting as an RF antenna. Once energized, it has more rejection qualities, and is more susceptible to large electro-magnetic field influences. Even placing two energized cords along side each other, will have little or no effect on the other's audio component. The newer switching class-D amps can inject adequate hi-freq noise into close-proximity sensitive interconnect cabling and component gain stages (even through some cable shielding and metal chassis), but would be hard pressed to have an audible affect when placed several yards up stream, along side another amp's un-shielded PC (via an extention cord for testing purposes). Oh, and can't forget about all the non-shielded Romex behind the sheetrock walls. Mainly what people hear from two-way radio communication, is affecting radio/television receivers or inadequately shielded sensitive components and IC cabling. That's the only time I've ever heard anything during audio playback, and I live next to a private air park where communication takes place throughout the day. I'm open to explanation, though.
Reb1208,
Regarding conductor materials... copper, silver, or gold are capable of frequencies into the extreme RF bandwidth. The audio bandwidth is child's-play in comparison. Copper is utilized everywhere in these applications. Capacitance, impedance, and shielding are the main issues affecting an interconnect's frequency/performance, as they do with RF cabling or wave-guides.
Not real sure how or why you're having issues with shielded cords creating coloration. Any further explanation to help us understand what might be contributing to your findings?
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Spatialking,
What technical articals are you extracting your "voltage bandwidth" vs "current bandwidth" findings from, with regards to this topic and powersupply requirements?
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Mrtennis,
Without personally witnessing your comparison technique, no one really knows what you're hearing.
Look, there is only a tiny percentage of Agon readers with adequate electronics background qualified to give explanations on electronics theory, based on decades of engineering facts. Instead of gambling on subjective reader opinions, call a spectrum of reputable manufacturers that aren't MARKETING cords with their gear.
It's amazing how so many put all kinds of faith into aftermarket companies peddling endless claims (not limited to audio), but the actual component ENGINEER'S aren't given enough credit for their designs and requirements. It's in their best interest if it made a difference, right? Speaker cabling and IC's are another issue all together.
The power cord type, supplied with a $6k amplifier (example), was sellected based on the component's power requirements, and is what was utilized to obtain the amp's engineered specifications, THUS obtaining the audible results that so-called "Audiophile reviewer's" base their "positive" articles on. (An entire story of it's own)
The more you know about electronics/powersupplies, you'll begin to understand why alternate cord conductors will have no affect on the component's output FREQUENCY response. I'm always open for further education, but please base it on engineering facts, or post some reputable articles for all of us to read, and preferably un-biased.
It is well understood how/why humans can convince their senses into believing all kinds things, and is why placebo and advertizing (all industries) work so well. |
Ronniekoh,
Unlike power cords, speaker and interconnect cabling can "directly" affect inductive speaker loads, or sensitive gain stages. Both cables are in the audio stream, and can affect frequency response by inductance, resistance, and capacitance. The altering or addition of these passive components may/can be proven audibly (pending their values) instantaneously. A power cord's job is to transfer available voltage/current into the components power supply, thus converted to stable, low ripple DC. This DC will be attained no matter what conductor material is sellected to feed it. Silver or gold conductors will merely grant but a few milivolts difference (over a 6 ft length) into the isolation transformer, over copper. The outlet voltage varies far more at any given moment! Whether being fed by 50 Hz or 60Hz, the power supply converts it into DC, and is un-affected by the passive components mentioned earlier.
Besides all the preceeding footage of non-audiophile Romex wiring, what about all the "acclaimed" aftermarket line conditioners being inserted between the outlet and audio components? Lots of passive/active components in direct contact with the AC stream, thus feeding the exact same audio component. All of which would add way more coloration in comparison to ANY power cord related issues. Oh...and yet ANOTHER power cord! Where's all the "frequency" related questions there? It just doesn't apply to power supplies and cords, with regards to limiting a component's output frequncy. Where's all the concern about the isolation transformer's copper wiring, or core composition? Just think about each and every component's internal soldering, for those bringing up that PC-related topic (includes most power, speaker, and IC cables).
For every personal scenerio you've witnessed/debated someone claiming to hear differenses, I can match with ones who have failed during blind testing, whether in their personal environment, or a dealer's. I've been at this HiFi stuff for three decades now, and been through these discussions/testing before.
My problem is that I lack the discipline with not responding to these forums. Seems no one ever seems to sway the other camp, but in my lengthy career of electronics trouble-shooting and personel training, I've observed all kinds of scenerios where work colleagues report having repaired/diagnosed a problem that wasn't even related, but in fact, they reset or disturbed something else in the process. My explanation/advice to them is to re-verify, sabatage, or replace items they've swapped. More than 70% of the time, they didn't truly fix the problem. That's my advice to you readers. Ignore the label ego and bragging rights, and create engineered methods to reconfirm what you're hearing. That's all...
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Ronniekoh,
Why is it always the electronic ignorant that defend their "bat-like" hearing as gospel, and completely ignor the fact that ALL of their audio equipment was "ENGINEERED" based on decades of electronic research. You'd still be beating sticks together if it wasn't for engineering! Those silly idiots down at Pass, Krell, Levinson, Sim, Wadia, etc. Why haven't they gotten on board with all this vast PC knowledge on Agon? But I'm sure YOUR vast knowledge can run circles around their years of combined experience. Speaking of crystal-rubbing, UFO-watchin' "religious types"... Give us a break!
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Jafox,
With all respect, you being an EE and fully capable of an exact technical explanation for "Mrtennis", why yet hasn't anyone come forword? Just more of the same unverified "personal" testimonial responses we get from every other Agon reply.
As mentioned earlier to "ronniekoh", I've witnessed countless cable blind-testing events where self-touted Audiophiles failed to pick the premium designs over basic configurations during my adult 30-or-so years of HiFi tinkering. This included some of my audio dealer friends who sold exotic cables, as well.
It's not like I haven't paid my dues with personal testing. It went hand-in-hand with my interest in electronics, followed by a professional carreer.
A few others, and myself, attempted to offer an explanation to Mrtennis, and even advised hime to contact as many component manufacturers as needed. Note the sarcasm/derogatory responses directed towards the engineering-minded, yet it was manufacturer's engineering claims that attracted most cable buyers towards their purchase. |
"Not providing a technical explanation does not by default correlate to fraud. Coca Cola does not share its recipe for Coke, and yet few argue that people enjoy the beverage without having to know the formula."
Coca Cola isn't marketing product based on performance/technical claims that can be verified by the end user. Food companies are not obligated to disclose trade flavor secrets. Two different comparisons.
All of your other audio "electronic" products must meet manufacturer's performance claims, or can be held liable for mis-representation or false advertising. Where is there ANY equivalence to this in audio related "tweaks"? Notice how "vitamin/health food" companies can no longer make health claims?
There should be some agreed upon (and regulated) standards within the industry, just like the rest of your "electronic" components.
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Tvad,
First off, please understand that I'm not attacking you personally.
I did take a quick peek at those sites, but my initial response was that, AGAIN, they were from two companies marketing audio cables, thus the biased marketing claims. Just like with any other market of interest, an intelegent buyer should extract as much info from several sources. As with buying a new car, each manufacturer will hype their best features over the competition. It's the buyer's responsibility to weed out the nonsense, right? You pick the market, and the same behavior applies between the manufacturer and buyer.
I WILL agree to go back and read more of their technical info, but admittingly, I've read similar stuff to death. I'll be fair! |
