I also have full-range floorstanders for front L/R, but I don't have a sub, so I can't set them to small. |
Sorry, no such agreement here, due to financial considerations!! My question is just trying to get at what the best setting might be for my setup, and so far, it seems the consensus here is that I should set it to small.
My front L/R are Legacy Signature III, which have a rather large subwoofer section and go down to about 20hz in the right room, which mine is not. But they do shake the room pretty good if you turn it up.
It does seem that movies overall sound better with the center set to "small". It seems the processor in my receiver sends the bass for the center to the front L/R since I have it set to "no sub". |
Actually, I am now quite pleased with the system, both on movies and music. Last night, I toggled the center speaker between "small" and "large", and I think it really sounded a bit better overall with it set to "large". I am going to leave it set that way for a while.
I now think some of the problems I alluded to in my original post about setting the center speaker to "large" must stem from my recollections from when I was using my Panny RP-91's onboard decoder. Now that I am decoding with my Sony DA4ES, setting the center to "large" is sounding real good. I don't run real high volume levels, so that may be why I don't seem to be having problems with overdriving the Paradigm, and thereby getting distortion. |
D edwards,
Well, actually, I aquired the Legacy Signatures some time ago, when I acutally had some money, and before I had 2 kids in college, as I do now!
I have been aware of the Legacy center channel speakers, but they were pretty pricey. I was not aware it might be possible to get a Silver Screen in that price range.
And no, nobody suggested the Paradigm Speaker. I did that myself, as a result of poor intelligibility of center channel dialog with a PSB Image 9C speaker. The Paradigm 570 is a pretty good speaker, and is quite a bit better than the PSB. And it really seems to blend with the L/R okay to me. (I have now found out that a lot of the clarity problem was due to the center speaker cable and interconnects, but live and learn).
Also, my center speaker sits on top of my Mits RPTV. How much does the Silver Screen weigh? |
Correction...Mine are the Legacy Signature II, which do not have the kevlar mid-woofer. But they seem pretty good to me. Any time I listen to other speakers of any similar price, I find myself thinking of what aspects of the sound I would be giving up. |
Well, now we are getting back to my original question.
The thing is, I do NOT use a sub. And it seems when I set the center speaker to "large" in the receiver menu, I lose a lot of overall bass. I think that is because in 5.1, the center channel is full range, but the Paradigm only goes down to ~50hz. But when I set it to "small", I get a lot more overall bass.
And not only that, but when set to "large", I think because it is trying to reproduce more LF, the clarity of the center is poorer.
Perhaps I should have asked not only how big, but how GOOD a center speaker needs to be, to be set to "large". |
I played around with it some more tonight, watching 5.1 movies and a Black Crows concert on HD cable.
Actually, tonight I could hear no ill effect from setting the center speaker to "large". It did't seem to cause any loss of clarity in the center speaker, nor did it seem to cause any loss of overall bass. I really liked the overall sound with that setting.
I am going to try it on some DVDs and HD DVDs as well. |
Thanks Ozz,
I am driving all 5 channels with a Sherbourn 5/1500A, which is a 5 mono channel design @ 200 wpc. Weighs about 80 pounds.
I have the Legacys bi-wired, and they sound pretty good.
Guys, I understand a good sub will make things better, but that is not in the cards right now.
Also, we don't really crank it up loud, so I don't get too much of the sound falling apart problem. |
Thanks,
I don't know if my receiver(Sony DA4ES) offers a choice of frequencies to "cross over" the center channel. I only saw the choices of large, small, or none for the center speaker. Unfortunately, I am not too familiar with the cross over concept and procedures. |
This is weird, but as I have continued to experiment with switching the center setting between large and small, I am finding I think I like it better overall with the center set to large.
Why? Because it seems my Paradigm 570 has a bit less "chestiness" to male voices than my Legacy Sig. IIs. I know that shouldn't be the case, considering the price ranges, but when I set the center to small, the lower midrange and bass in the center signal are routed to the front L/R Legacys, which have the poly midranges rather than the kevlars in later models.
Mind you, with center set to large, I do lose some of the total deep bass in action movies, since the center channel is full range, and the 570 just doesn't do anything down low. But I am just very keen on intelligibility of dialog in movies, and the chestiness I get with center set to small just bothers me and makes it harder to understand the dialog.
Sometimes I do switch it back to small when I want a lot of bass and I have to get the bass sent to the Legacys to get the most of it.
I don't play movies at anywhere near reference level, so I guess that is why I am not running into severe problems with overdriving the woofers on the Paradigm. |
Drcruz,
Yes, I have experimented extensively with setting the receiver to no center speaker. Due to the TV, equipment rack, and the room itself, I can't move the Legacys around much at all. I have played around some with the toe-in.
Actually, I am now fairly happy with the dialog from the Paradigm. |
"Setting the center channel to "large" is better sounding regardless of how small your center speaker is because when you set your receiver/processor to "small", the receiver inserts a high-pass filter, usually steep-slope and not of the greatest quality, to remove the deep bass and protect your center channel."
Dave, thanks for the response and info. I surmise that what you describe is happening with my Sony DA4ES receiver that I am using as processor.
I noticed something else I don't like when using the center speaker, whether set to large OR small. And that is a loss of ambience details, compare to setting the receiver center channel setting to "none". I was switching back and forth, and when I am set to "none" and the sound is just from the front L/R, there is a lot more sense of space and background ambient noises in the mix(example, traffic and city sounds).
It seems like a good processor would retain that spacial information even through a center channel speaker, or would still direct it to the front L/R. Are there any processors that pull this off very well?
I am starting to get an itch for a processor, but the Sony has so dang many features I like, it will be hard to find a processor that has them, phono input and TWO multi-channel inputs(I have HDDVD and a Universal player) just to name a couple. |
I don't yet use a sub, and since my front L/R as well as the surrounds have deep bass extension, I can say that even if I did have a sub, I would still set the fronts and surrounds to "large".
Why you ask? Well, I have done some experimentation with watching movies and switching between sub "yes" and "no" settings. So, when I set the sub setting to "yes", the LFE is ostensibly directed to the non-existent sub. But guess what? Even then there is copious bass coming from both the front L/R and the surrounds. This is noticed in music, as well as ambient noise such as street sounds and industrial plant type noises.
This is not unlike the difference I noted when switching the center channel setting between large and small, again with the large setting preserving more ambient and realistic sounds. |
Drcruz,
I am not getting BETTER bass with sub set to "yes" in the absence of a sub. All I am saying is that in DD and DTS movie tracks, there is a lot of deep bass in the fronts and surrounds that is separate from the LFE bass, which is mostly rumbling sounds. Now, you might not notice this if you are running satelites for these speakers.
This is why, contrary to what some recommend, I set all my speakers to large in the setup menu. Like I said, I get more ambience and "presence" set that way. Now, when I then switch back to sub "yes", I just get a bit more of the rumbling LFE type bass out of the front L/R.
With respect to dynamic range compression, I don't think my receiver works the way you describe. The dynamic range control is called, "Night Mode", and has to be selected with the remote or button on front panel. When I set to sub "no", the Night Mode does NOT come on, unless I turn it on. |
