I am about to invest in MONO Vinyl playback setup.
The goal - pure, undiluted music straight down the center.
The plan - dedicated 2nd tonearm + mono cartridge + phono
After 6 long months of waiting, my Woodsong plinth with dual arm boards schedule to arrive next month.
I came across a product that peaked my interest. The Monaural Phono Amplifier - Aurorasound EQ-100. No reviews, so I am wondering if anyone tried it yet?
⬆️ Is EQ-100 or something similar, absolute necessary from a purist perspective or should I take the pragmatic path and use the ‘Mono’ switch on my Integrated with a built in phono?
There are ofcourse pros and cons to both approaches so I am seeking advice from folks who have compared both options or adopted another alternative in their vinyl setup.
My 1Cent (mono after all), is that what I learned here is true: a TRUE Mono Cartridge is best, no need to put my mode switch in Mono Mode.
How Much Better? a little, some, more, a heck of a lot better, depends on the individual LP, but the key is to ONLY pick up the content, NOT pick up anything that might be noise or inadvertently considered content. NOT Sum Noise.
Distinction of individual instruments and/or voices can be significantly improved. Scuffs, scratches, warps, anything in the groove can be totally ignored.
To use a stereo pickup, and sum, is to add the unwanted noise in both channels, that's MUD added to the Mono Content both sides.
It is hard to free yourself of the habit of seeking imaging. Happily, McIntosh's have other options, sometimes the best is to take the input from the MONO Cartridge, and Play that thru only 1 speaker, L only or R only, whichever sounds best in your space at your listening position which can now be anywhere. I can play my L speaker only and sit on the far end of the room at mt position on the sofa with my coffee warmer, or out on the adjacent porch.
I just changed and now have 3 arms, all with removable headshells, to use any cartridge on any arm.
My 1st/Main True Mono Cartridge is Grado ME+, with replaceable elliptical stylus ($100.), MI using standard MM Phono. I just replaced my stylus, easy, did it upside down while mounted on my old fixed arm.
I sent this to Steve at VAS just to confirm that I wanted an advanced stylus shape on the AT33PTG/II Mono Body as my alternate mono cartridge (It;s done he says it sounds great, I'm picking it up tomorrow).
While it's generally recommended to use a mono cartridge for mono LPs, some advanced stylus shapes, like line contact or Shibata, can be used with mono cartridges to improve sound quality. These shapes offer greater contact with the groove wall, potentially revealing more detail and reducing noise.
Elaborating on the benefits and considerations:
Improved Tracking and Detail:
Advanced stylus shapes, such as line contact or Shibata, are designed to trace the groove walls more precisely, potentially revealing more detail and reducing noise.
Reduced Wear:
Some advanced stylus shapes may offer lower tracking forces, potentially reducing wear on the record.
Potential for Better Sound:
Some audiophiles believe that advanced stylus shapes can improve the overall sound quality of mono records.
Mono Cartridge Compatibility:
While advanced stylus shapes are often associated with stereo cartridges, some mono cartridges also utilize them. For example, the Hana SL Mono MK II features a Shibata stylus.
True Mono vs. Stereo Cartridges:
It's important to note that a "true mono" cartridge has only two pins, while a stereo cartridge has four. Using a stereo cartridge on a mono LP can cause damage to the record.
In summary:
If you're looking to upgrade the sound quality of your mono LPs, using a mono cartridge with an advanced stylus shape like line contact or Shibata can offer a potential improvement. However, it's important to ensure the cartridge is truly mono and that the stylus is properly aligned and adjusted for optimal performance. "
Beatles, One of the new friends I met here brought his collection of Beatles, both 3 Mono Versions and their Stereo versions, all in very good condition. We spent a few hours listening.
I found it was always easier or just natural to follow the words, content of the song/story of the songs in Mono, while the added interest/complexity of the Stereo Image sometimes emphasized the musical content more than the story of the song. That is a big deal when the songs are new, not so much after they become familiar, but in a focused comparison, that became apparent to both of us.
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John's Voice, Paul's Bass Playing on Sgt. Pepper's
I have Sgt Peppers in CD/LP/Reel to Reel (7", 7-1/2 ips). It's great to let people hear/choose among formats.
Any matching content: LP always beats the CD, and people become shocked at how good the tape sounds, to the point I glanced over to find tears coming out of my nephew's eyes (he's a musician). I would love to hear this on Rick's 15 IPS 2 track (another friend I met here). Led Zeppelin on his Otari has to be close to what they were hearing in the studio, making decisions, it is so far beyond any version I ever heard.
I shake my head at the subtleties of Paul's bass playing, John's voice that I am far more easily aware of, and I have to wonder if Mono would be a superior 1st listen even though it is outstanding Stereo.
btw, IF you use different cartridges on different arms, Arm Height Adjustment becomes very important. I am loving my restored JVC Victor UA-7082 and Acos Lustre GST-801, both of which I learned about here.
I had my Sumiko Talisman S on it, switched to my AT160ml a few days ago, and the arm would not lower onto the LP, the height difference of those 2 cartridges is measurable. I simply free the arm post lock, adjust the height with a turn, lock the height. (very small level on the arm)
you are correct, about the AI error I posted: many true mono cartridges have 4 pins (both of mine do), and RIAA being used (for some, not all) earlier, from 1954
"From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The RIAA equalization curve for playback of vinyl records. The recording curve performs the inverse function, reducing low frequencies and boosting high frequencies.
RIAA equalization is a specification for the recording and playback of phonograph records, established by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). The purposes of the equalization are to permit greater recording times (by decreasing the mean width of each groove), to improve sound quality, and to reduce the groove damage that would otherwise arise during playback.
The RIAA equalization curve was intended to operate as a de facto global industry standard for records since 1954, but when the change actually took place is difficult to determine.[1]
Before then, especially from 1940, each record company applied its own equalization; over 100 combinations of turnover and rolloff frequencies were in use, the main ones being Columbia-78, Decca-U.S., European (various), Victor-78 (various), Associated, BBC, NAB, Orthacoustic, World, Columbia LP, FFRR-78 and microgroove, and AES. The obvious consequence was that different reproduction results were obtained if the recording and playback filtering were not matched."
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My speakers are new enclosures with drivers from 1958, I pulled from the Fisher President II Console I inherited from my Uncle Johnny, here’s it’s Control Panel’s choices for LP and Tape
“A sort of marketplace “AM-FM stereo” system standard for binaural broadcasting appeared, with one channel on the AM (left) and the other on the FM (right). These were the days before NRSC audio frequency reduction, so the audio response on AM was notably better. Vendors offered better receivers to the connoisseur; and the reception environment was far friendlier than today, with less electrification, less band noise and fewer stations. AMs could sound pretty good; all FM signals were hi-fi mono.”
Tune the FM Mono Tuner to CBS and Tune the AM Mono Tuner to CBS. Select ‘Stereo Radio’ on the Control Panel
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I’ve re-coned the 15" woofer a few times over the years, the horns are original ’impregnated linen’, seemingly indestructible although I did burn out a coil once blasting my reel to reel copy of Iron Butterfly
here’s the back off showing the innards, 3 wheels for alternate toe-in/placements, front block to tilt them back to aim the tweeters at seated ear height.
A pair of L Pads (not shown) are mounted in the back panel to adjust both horn’s volumes in the space, using Test Tones and an SPL Meter on a tripod at seated ear height.
Notice, no internal bracing, yet nothing vibrates off the slanted tops
that ’damage’ comment was from AI, sorry I reposted it.
It is true that an advanced stylus shape with much larger contact area makes less wear (than spherical/elliptical shapes), thus over a lot of plays (unlikely with a large collection), increased wear will occur using either a conical or elliptical shape, due to both less contact area and typically higher tracking force.
Wear is normal, I would not use the word ’damage’ for wear, even though I prefer light tracking linear stylus shapes (Stereo or Mono) (1.0g; 1.25g) because of the reduced wear while hearing preferred performance.
My previously worn LP’s (mine from High School/recently bought) (played with prior spherical/elliptical stylus shapes) sound both better and quieter when thoroughly cleaned (vigorously scrubbed) and now played with linear contact profiles.
"from AI: (contains errors):
"True Mono vs. Stereo Cartridges:
It’s important to note that a "true mono" cartridge has only two pins, (wrong) while a stereo cartridge has four. Using a stereo cartridge on a mono LP can cause damage to the record. "
.............. Both my true Mono cartridges have 4 pins ..........................
MI (uses MM Phono Input) Grado ME+ Elliptical
MC AT33PTG/II Mono rebuilt with advanced stylus shape by VAS
My choice of SUT was lucky in every way, it has 3 front selectable inputs for my 3 arms, thus only 1 out to my preamp’s MM Phono In
and it has PASS for my MM and Grado MI, and 4 optional xfactors and resultant impedances for Low Output MC.
Multiple arms: Choice of Tonearms, Height Adjustment, SUT, solving high/low multiple inputs, I got help with it all here, and my choices turned out to be both good and lucky
I don’t use height adjustment for ’perfect’ SRA/VTA, that’s too fussy for me, I go for the standard ’arm level when stylus down in the groove’, and interchangeable cartridge’s playing heights do vary. I put these levels on the arm, back near the pivot, with a speck of tack, balance them, then add tracking weight .... You can leave it on or off depending on .....
Until my 2019 Overhaul, I avoided Low Output MC because they ALL had HUM back when I was younger (ears better then too). This SUT has ZERO HUM, and is not fussy where you put it. I have had it in several locations, now it is under the Plinth, facing right side, near the TT81 motor, facing the preamp and amp.
I looked at the specs of your intended Mono Phono EQ, it is versatile but ’locked in’ to Mono, seems unnecessarily so to me, certainly for my mixed use of 3 arms and ’mostly Stereo, frequently Mono’ which I think is fairly common. I also do not have space for Multiple TT’s, perhaps you do.
I would think it thru, research other options, and consider both Stereo/Mono/removable Headshells/Arm Height/methods of hookup and selection/input limitations because I think I’m done and then along comes Beryllium or an interesting Sapphire Tube Cantilever.
and if I was willing to spend the $, starting fresh I would prefer gain and impedance for LOMC were independent rather than my SUT whereby the impedance is ’resultant’ on the gain choice, i.e. 4 fixed relationships. There are cartridges that would not work well in any of my SUT’s 4 choices (most suts probably).
It has it’s own RIAA, Line Level Out, easy in some respects, however that omits the possibility of using my preamp’s MM Phono stage which I have chosen over every other RIAA phono I have heard here. Actually the mx110z has two identical selectable MM Phono RIAA inputs, and is more limited with only 1 aux line in.
It has two inputs, one must be MC, that’s limiting, AND it has no method of passing on a Stereo Signal, what will you be using for your Stereo Cartridges?
It seems to me a Stereo Pass option would be easy.
the Aurorasound EQ-100 is uniquely different, from the manual:
"When a stereo cartridge is used, any vertical signal on a record is cancelled by an internal circuit of EQ-100. Only the R+L horizontal signal are detected to assure a superior sound stage with less noise."
Cancelling any vertical input seems to me FAR better than producing the noise and then summing the noise in both channels, that is my biggest objection and what I referred to as MUD on top of the Mono Content (Dual Mud?).
It may be the best way to use a single arm, single stereo cartridge to play a Mono LP. Thus my objection that it does not have provision for proper Stereo, ... and
it always ends up Line Level Out (after doing what? complicated for infrequent use, the switches were left in what position?)
OP, I’m excited for you, I had a Thorens TD124, single arm, I can imagine the Garrard’s are a similar degree of AWESOME. Best Bass I ever heard, here or anywhere since. I’m happy with what I am getting, but you never forget the difference once you have had it.
It’s funny to see them on spikes, maybe in a concrete bunker, I need a final layer of rubber even with my current JVC Victor TT81 player (since wrapped in black tape)
the TD124 was very sensitive to vertical vibrations from my springy wood floors, and I need/prefer a dust cover.
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These are a combo spike/soft, and adjustable, has anyone tried them______?
"For the umpteenth time, using a mono switch when playing a mono LP with a stereo cartridge is not per se going to increase noise because of "sum"-ing. Phase cancellation takes care of that, and reduction, not summing, of common mode noise is the principle benefit of using the mono switch."
I keep forgetting this, because not always but MOST OFTEN, using my True Mono cartridge sounds FAR better, MUCH LESS NOISE than using my Mono Switch.
is UNLISTENABLE with a Stereo Cartridge, a history lesson at best, (where’s Louis?). When played with my Grado ME+ Mono, $185. elliptical, it is both enjoyable (there’s Louis) and is the easiest demo I can play for others.
A muddy mess with terrific sounding AT33PTG/II Stereo’s advanced stylus via mx110z’s Mono Switch. Play with the Grado Mono Cartridge: Individual instruments and voices become distinct (not imaging, but distinction) to the extent you can imagine the individual players. Definitely DOES NOT OCCUR using the Mono Switch.
Where is phase cancellation mentioned?
If Phase Cancellation is ASSUMED to occur, it doesn’t occur perfectly, not in my experience.
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You do not need to spend a lot of money for True Mono Cartridge, $185. is the current price of the Grado ME+, elliptical stylus, if you want to go beyond that, ok, but not needed to simply enjoy your current or future Mono LP's,
especially if you listen to Jazz, so many greats made their reputation before Stereo. If it's in good shape and mono, you will have no hesitation, recording techniques were already very good, buy, plan on it sounding INVOLVING..
for those here who want to know the difference, i.e. "that’s good enough for my small need".
You are a good one to tell us what happens in your system with your particular Mono LPs.
a. play the stereo cartridge with the preamp in Mono position
b. play the mono cartridge, perhaps name a few LPs it makes an ’easily noticeable’ improvement
b1. leave switch in Stereo position (no need to use mono position with a true mono cartridge) (especially interesting for others who don’t have a stereo/mono switch, i.e. you don’t need both
b2. move to Mono position, in your case, is it just habit, or do you hear a benefit?.
note that Most (not all) Mono Cartridges' compliance material is designed to RESTRICT vertical movement.
from Audio Technica,
"Generally speaking, it is possible to play a mono LP using a stereo phono cartridge, but if it is a true mono record, better performance can be obtained by using a true mono cartridge. So, what defines a true mono record? Vinyl records can be either mono or stereo and each differs greatly in the way that it is recorded and cut. Cutting refers to the mechanical process of imprinting the recorded signal into the record surface. A heated cutting stylus literally cuts the signal into the soft surface of a lacquer-coated blank disc from which vinyl copies will ultimately be made. True mono records are cut laterally: The cutting stylus moves from side to side, cutting the same signal in both record groove walls. We refer to this as horizontal modulation. The playback stylus, therefore, requires compliance (movement) in the horizontal direction only. By contrast, stereo records are cut in both lateral and vertical directions. The cutting stylus moves not only from side to side but up and down as well, therefore the stereo playback stylus requires compliance in both directions.
A stereo cartridge will never quite faithfully reproduce the true mono signal accurately because it is not restricted to horizontal compliance only. Some phase and tracking errors will exist.Additionally, there will be some amount of cross talk between the cartridge’s independent left and right channels. A true mono cartridge eliminates these problems by producing only one signal and distributing the signal to both channels equally; the signal appearing in the left and right channels will be identical. This arrangement produces a sound that is more focused (centred) and has more weight (punch). An additional benefit of the design is that of surface noise reduction. When the same exact signal is reproduced at the same time by two speakers, the signal-to-noise ratio is improved.
Note: A mono cartridge should not be used to play back a stereo LP record unless it is specifically stated that the cartridge has appropriate compliance in the vertical direction. Our AT33MONO moving coil cartridge is one such cartridge.
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random finds re: Mono Switch might improve even when using a true mono cartridge
Below from Ortofon's mono cartridge page ...
Advantages of using a mono cartridge to play mono records
If you play a mono record with a stereo cartridge you will not achieve the same signal in the two channels due to imperfections such as crosstalk, noise, phase errors, tracking error, antiskating and distortion. This difference between the channels will result in an unstable and partially fuzzy image. A mono switch, to some extent, can improve this.
Playing the same record with a mono cartridge will have none of the aforementioned problems, as this cartridge only produces one signal, which afterwards is directed to both channels in the system. This will provide a much more forceful and stable image with a fuller sound.
Another significant advantage of using a mono cartridge to play mono records is the absence of response to vertical movement. This means that a mono cartridge is essentially impervious to the pinching effect which comes into action when the stylus is pushed vertically upward in very narrow grooves. In addition, the response to dust, dirt and wear will be reduced substantially as the vertical component will not be heard. The final result will be a much more clean and noiseless reproduction of the mono record. These effects simply cannot be achieved merely by the use of a mono switch.
because a stereo cartridge has no choice but respond in both planes, anything internally that causes phase shifts or differences in inductance and capacitance will affect the output when summed.
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On a mono Lp the only things in the vertical plane are noise and distortion.
I’m so lucky to live near and have Steve and Ray Leung of VAS as friends as well as problem solvers. They are quite busy.
They rewired the tonearm I bought on eBay (came with no right channel), and put a new boron cantilever/microridge stylus on the AT33PTG/II MC Mono body I bought from Yahoo Auctions with a broken cantilever for this purpose. This advanced combo does not exist unless you have it built.
I drove down before lunch, picked them up, got home, re-installed and re-calibrated all 3 active arms: Stereo MC/Stereo MM/Mono MC.
OMG that MC Mono cartridge sounds awesome, far better than I expected, far better than my Grado ME+ Elliptical which does a darn good job with Mono LPs for only $185.. I am glad I spent what totalled around $600.
I played this LP for the 1st time (one of the 4,000 lps my friend left me, mostly jazz, many Mono, the majority played once, a few times at most).
I highly recommend it, and exactly what I mean about players making their mark with excellently recorded Mono techniques. Read the notes, awesome players all.
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Ray checked and cleaned 5 of my cartridges with their 100 power microscope, I looked at the last one, it’s amazing to view them so magnified. I want one!!!!
He identified each of the various stylus shapes (SAS; Shibata; Van den Hull; MicroLinear; Conical) within seconds without hesitation.
Then he cleaned them, all the way down into the suspension pocket, two of them were tricky to clean, you and I would have shaking hands, he has no hesitation. I think I keep them clean, and yet ...... one had some metal specks, I bet I had it out on my workbench in my shop where my magnifying shop light is, and the cartridge’s magnets pulled some metal dust out of the carpet tiles I have on the surface. I’ll try to remember to be more careful in the future.
He confirmed they all are in good shape and most happily have even wear, i.e. former owners and I are getting the anti-skate correct, and the sellers told the truth, it’s nice to have your ears confirmed with facts. After all, I/we are capable of hearing what we want to or expect to hear.
He said he can try in the future to put a new stylus in the beryllium cantilevers, but no guarantee, they break very easily.
I specifically asked, and Ray confirmed what I have read elsewhere, MOST cartridges they rebuild, the stylus have uneven wear, which confirms MOST people are not getting their anti-skate correct. (that’s us folks)
I no longer trust the arm’s dials, I use a blank side of an LP, and adjust to counteract active skate, not what the dial says, what physically happens while the lp is spinning and I adjust. And I re-check both tracking force and anti-skate frequently.
btw, on an off chance (they have everything) I took them one of the beveled washers I used to repair my JVC Victor UA-7082 Tonearm’s Counterweight Sag.
Sure enough, they have a messed up UA-7082, so I was able to let them know my experiences and sent them photos and measurements. Their brass piece is a disaster, bent, stripped threads, but they are very resourseful.
My repair method allows holding the inner part with a tool when tightening the counterweight, then assemble into the post last, that is a critical difference when the internal part is a mess.
I am so glad I bought and repaired it, it is a wonderful tonearm when working.
I’ll be listening again soon, all 3 headshels allow azimuth adjustment
Notice the yellow levels on two of the arms (adjust arm height so level when playing, cantilever suspension engaged), I’m leaving them on for now, near the pivot, an extra 2+ grams. I noticed, Steve uses VPI with several uni-pivot arms ready, each have a smaller level on the headshell, I’m gonna look into that.
I often listen to Mono from my reclining chair on my porch, where most of my recovery from 31 surgeries has occurred, and often use the Mode Switch, so true mono cartridge, then L+R to L projects only the Left Speaker diagonally into the room, out to the porch
or, Listen from the far right corner, sofa next to my coffee warmer, and perhaps while I eat, the coffee table rises up for meals/snacks. The two chairs simply spin around for either 2 CH music or 5.1 video.
I hope you have a team fetching you stuff. Donna can handle the TT properly, and loves music too, so whatever I’m in the mood for
Removable Headshells, even high quality ones, might not be perfectly level with the arm, so you need to check both Azimuth and VTA at the headshell, when down on the mirror or in the groove, suspension properly flexed by tracking weight.
I just ordered this versatile kit of inexpensive levels, I’m not planning on leaving them on, but they are sized to fit hot shoes on cameras and I can compare the cheap things to my better quality levels, I have found some good, some not in the past
I use a speck of sticky tack to defy gravity and temporarily hold something like a level, or a cartridge nut in a tiny place until I get a screw started
I use this mirror, same thickness as an LP, any deviation from straight is ’oppositely’ reflected, makes it easy, and the level can confirm if all is well.
I can lower all 3 arms onto an LP, it plays perfect speed (as Halcro proved)
so I can compare 2 or even 3 cartridges within seconds by my two dials on my SUT
I make any needed volume adjustments when I change, my Cayin Amp volume knob is right there at 12 oclock normal (for more precision, for subtle differences, I make temp. A,B,C pencil marks on the amp’s aluminum face plate).
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A new friend and I just quickly compared a pair of Mono LPs and a pair of cartridges, just to let him hear the difference.
1st with my MM Stereo AT160ml Cartridge and Mode dial in Mono, beryllium cantilever with MicroLinear Stylus (VAS verified good)
2nd the MC AT33ptg/II 50th Anniversary MONO (VAS rebuilt with boron/microridge) Mode Switch in Stereo and then moved to Mono.
The Stereo Cartridge playing a very flat, excellent condition mono LP of content recorded in 1955, with mode switch in Mono sounded good, if I only had a few Mono LP’s, like the old days, that would be ’good enough’.
The Mono Cartridge (mode switch stereo or mono made no difference this time) was immediately more involving, definitely had increased clarity of individual instruments, that’s a trombone, that’s a trumpet, ..... if voices, I can say there would be an obvious improvement there too.
If you have more than a few Mono LP’s, if you have the money, definitely get a true mono cartridge. start at least with the Grado ME+ Mono Elliptical on Aluminum for only $185, it will be worth it, you will hear a preferred difference.
I have to say, I personally wouldn’t pay $1,000 or more, but the $600. I spent creating my Franken MC Mono with boron/microridge is noticeably better/preferred to the Grado Elliptical, i.e. the risk paid off!
I used the shorter SME 3009 on my Thorens TD124 for many years, loved the knife edge design. So obvious what everything does. Note: those arms have a concealed rubber tube that isolates the rear counterweight tube section, if buying used, make sure it has been renewed.
I was just admiring the two longer 3012’s Steve has among the forest of TT’s you pass by. It was that combo, with Shure’s V15VxMR beryllium/microridge that I mentioned earlier as the best bass I ever had and will never forget. Tracked at 1.0g
It’s not tool free or quick to change the height, but it seems like you will leave things alone after setup, unlike me who changes headshell/cartridge combos frequently (including friend’s cartridges we listen to here).
I never saw or heard a Groovemaster, it sure has nice features, what do the reviews say about comparison to SME, others
a. very thin wire, thus no forces back onto the arm interfering with anti-skate which is happening on my re-wired 12.5" New Art Vinyl Blackbird Arm (didn’t happen with it’s original litz wire). That is why I changed to the 11-1/8" long JVC Victor UA-7082, with internal 5 pin din. (current Blackbird uses 5 pin din).
b. magnetic anti-skate, awesome (my Acos Lustre GST-801 has that)
c. optional 9, 10, 12" lengths
c. Rotary Lift, tool free height adjustment. Looks as easy as my Acos Lustre GST-801 which is so smooth I change height while playing. Note: both my friend’s Micro-Seiki 505 and my JVC Victor have similar tool free rotary height adjustment, but neither (both bought used) is smooth enough to adjust while playing. It doesn’t matter, I am not refining VTA, I am just getting the cartridge’s height differences dealt with to achieve horizontal headshell when playing. Ability to adjust while playing is amazing.
d. removable headshell, I would order a spare OEM headshell.
or, when you take a chance on one of these vintage beryllium/microridge, you get a vintage AT headshell with azimuth adjustment. Tracks at 1.25 g.
Notice, not a slot adjustment, has two sets of concealed threaded holes for two optional locations, you need screws the correct length for any different cartridge. I have a collection of mounting hardware from over 40 years, and Vail Hardware one town away with nearly anything I need. I have made custom length screws in the past: I put two pairs of nuts on, cut, then when you take the old nuts off, they straighten the cut end of the threads for you.
The Rigid Float, may be the best thing ever made, it’s just too ugly for me.
here's the AT160ml Cartridge without a headshell, from Samurai, I took a chance on two used with headshells, VAS checked them, they both were good! One body turned out to be a model 150 with 160ml beryllium/microridge stylus, seller gave me 1/3 refund I asked for when I informed him. The cartridge model is only marked on it's top, so seller did not know until I removed it from the headshell to move it to the other screw position.
1st: is it a True Mono Cartridge? Always ask that. No signal generated by vertical motion is what you want.
next: what stylus profile shape?
then the cantilever material? because good mono can be VERY Dynamic
tracking force? (a lot has to be right to track lightly and get excellent measurements).
the combination of light tracking with large contact area of advanced stylus shapes is my preference, which has both longer stylus life and less wear to the grooves. Stereo or Mono
last: tech talk/achieved results/specifications, my copper is better than your copper
cartridges, SUT, cameras, at first I want to run from the technical crap, but after a while, it’s not that complicated, I’m a college graduate for god’s sake (art school) .....
Of your choices, two are conical, no way would I consider them, the Grado ME+ is elliptical, Ortofon Quintet Mono is Elliptical, both on aluminum, Ortofon a lot more $
I would definitely go for an advanced stylus profile for your system
My AT33 Mono, I like MC technology and the tech, but not like the aluminum cantilever or conical tip,
which is why I searched for a broken one, and had VAS rebuild with boron/microridge (nowhere available to purchase).
Yahoo Auctions $40. including Aledo fees/bank fees/shipping in Japan. Air shipping to usa $30 (should have chosen surface ship). VAS $400. total $470. plus 2 round trips 35 min each way, gas and tolls, I call it $600. total. It sounds awesome!
One of my used AT160ml was also Yahoo Auction, win auction cost $160.,
aledo fees/bank fee/ship in Japan to Aleado. ship to usa: $63, total $223.
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I’m a bargain hunter and willing to take risk, you win/you lose: I may lose -$250. on the tonearm I bought from Germany that had to be rewired, time will tell, seller is stalling. Or, it’s total price will be $404. incl customs and shipping to usa + $250 VAS rewire = $654. I’m not crying or giving up yet. My search: the only arm that fits in that location with a removable headshell
have VAS put a new microridge on boron cantilever for +$400.
A totally unique and unavailable combo that sounds awesome!
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If you don't know how Yahoo Auctions work:
Aleado is a bidding agent, you open an account with them and pre-deposit enough money ahead of time for them to bid on your behalf.
Like eBay, you put in your maximum, it only bids enough to win, up to your maximum.
Seller ships to Aleado who verifies that it is what the seller says it is. Aleado gives you several shipping options to choose from, with time estimates.
You confirm which shipping method/cost, they ship, it does not take that long, even surface these days.
Aleado takes a fee
Bank transfer fee
In-Japan Shipping to Aleado by seller
Aleado ships to you.
I have won several auctions, the one mistake I made was fearing long shipping time during covid and choosing $30. airmail, surface would have gotten here eventually. A complete bargain may only be achieved with patience.
Oh yeah, the small print: they might end early, or they might extend the auction by a day or two, just put your max in and let it happen.
"The only mono’s I have are reissues which are all lacquered with modern stereo heads these days. I simply use my stereo micro line cartridge and throw the mono switch on my phono preamp and I’m golden. No muss no fuss!"
Exactly what I did for years, I used to feel sorry for people who didn’t have a MONO switch.
Until, I read here what dwette and I and others who know are saying:
A True Mono Cartridge is BETTER. I clarify that by saying, a little, some, a lot, a whole heck of a lot better (depends on each LP content, engineering, condition).
Many things Phono, I emphasize the difference between ’prefer’ and ’better’. I prefer my mx110z's MM Phono RIAA EQ to any other I have heard in my system, I would not claim it is better, your ears/your system ....
In this case, notice I said BETTER! (In anyone's system)
2nd by stylus type, line contact at the top (all line contact are subtle variants of original shibata, avoiding patent disputes) (note no SAS with further increased contact area seems to exist)
The new Ortofon 2M Mono SE VERSION wins both categories, and happens to be the most affordable at $600! That's a solid recommendation if I ever saw one.
ANYONE OWN/HEARD IT?
My AT33 is boron, better than aluminum, however, I would choose the lighter 1.5g tracking NEW OEM Ortofon 2M Mono SE over my created 2.0g tracking cartridge. I did this a few years ago, the new SE didn't exist.
I think your Technics SP-15 is a great TT. Many years ago, Wayne, my friend at Harveys, 45th st, nyc called me whenever something great was coming out of trade-in/repair to their used shelf. (my office was on 44th st, 1 long and 1 short block away)
I bought an SP-15, with a Grace Arm and Grace Cartridge. I gave it to my good friend, and recently installed the B500 arm base on it, and we got a replaceable stylus from Soundsmith for the Grace Cartridge. Changing headshells and/or armwands, tool free arm height adjustment, it is a great way to have alternates in a compact setup, WITH a dust cover, one of my pet peeves.
Are you concerned with aligning/calibrating an advanced stylus shape?
I cannot understand using a conical stylus UNLESS it is specifically for the very old wide grooves, the opposite of your intentions.
Without a doubt, the lighter/stiffer boron cantilever, advanced microridge stylus shape (any shibata variation), lighter tracking force, refined LOMC technology of my VAS rebuilt AT33PTG/II Mono is my best sounding Mono cartridge. I expected some improvement over the elliptical, hopefully enough to justify the cost: if is far better.
good/better/best bonded, nude, pure, the various grades of diamonds may wear differently, but I cannot imagine you hearing any difference among the same profile shape, amount of contact surface will definitely sound better, last longer, and if a favorite is repeatedly played, cause less wear to the grooves.
Steve and Ray (lunch near me today) test/compare their own and customer’s cartridges on the same familiar content, they have perhaps 5 various pressings of some, and get new copies frequently. They learn and listen for differences.
Usually Steve plays a cartridge for you when you pick it up, sometimes he sends it, and waits for the customer to tell him, he is as impressed as I am with the one I had him build. He wants to come hear it here sometime soon.
He mentioned a few wood body cartridges he has/has rebuilt/likes a great deal.
"filling it with 87-octane and calling it “close enough….LOL!"
Hah! Now you and others will know more about me. After buying this 10 year old beauty and using recommended Premium for 7 months, I just filled the tank with the cheapest 87 I could find, it still runs like a Jack Rabbit. It’s the same to me, not close enough, the same.
V8, Twin Turbo, 445 HP, I admit I will NEVER experience that FULL power, or even close to it.
It’s not about the money, it’s about feeling like a sucker.
The computer’s handle it, it is not an accumulated effect like lead deposits, different octane just alters when the explosion ideally occurs and the computer alters the timing for when that occurs (at all times with any octane grade’s explosion timing). Either the computer figures it out smoothly or it doesn’t. Either you notice a difference or you don’t. A good test is up a long hard hill, I’ve got 2 near me.
I gave my prior 2012 Volvo C70 Hardtop Convertible to my Granddaughter. My son asked me what grade fuel? I forgot what the manual says, I told him I only put 87 in in for 7 years, never better, it jumps without hesitation when you hit it.
My wife’s 2005 Thunderbird, every once in a while I have her put in a tank of Premium, the idea is, do you notice an improvement you forgot about? No, back to regular. A periodic re-assessment. I’ll do the same thing with the BMW.
My wife and her twin sister are on their annual trip to Florida.I mentioned my car now has 87, Just so happens, her twin sister filled the T’Bird with Premium while Donna was napping. They both said it seems identical to all the driving they did the past 2-1/2 weeks. Those 3 vehicles, 2005, 2012, 2015 all have anti-knock sensors that adjust the timing successfully.
Maybe on a bench or track you could measure a difference, but driving around they all continue to get out of their own way aggressively.
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Based on past success, I filled it up!
Tempted but naturally anxious: Hedge your bet:
get near empty, put 1/4 tank of 87, drive it for a while, if you actually feel a loss of power, any knocking, then just fill it the rest of the way up with 93, and go back to 89 or 91, whatever you were doing.
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IMO, It’s a game of specmanship that I don’t want to get caught up in.
If there’s a measurable difference in ultimate power the maker can publish, a difference I never use or need, never aware of, it’s not real for me.
I thought I was going to have to get a wide groove spherical mono tip. Most if not all of my Mono LPs appear to be made in the 50's, 60's 70's and there is not good info given.
i.e. the Chicago South Side Jazz, Vol. 1 was a collection of music from the late 1920's, early 1930's, but it was produced in 1971. Smooth appearance, looks like a currently produced LP, hard to see the tiny grooves exist.
I play it with my elliptical or microridge.
I imagine playing a modern shibata variant in an old wide groove could cause damage and not be expected to sound good either, maybe even an elliptical would be 'wrong'. ?????
It says emphatically: ALL Octane Levels have the same energy level, the power difference is about whether you get good detonation or not (which includes clean fuel injectors).
At minute 16, this video makes a distinction between premium ’REQUIRED’ and premium ’RECOMMENDED’. I had a 1994 Jag XJS (that’s what he shows) it had the straight 6, not the masochist’s V12 that his example must be.
He says twice ’you can use regular in a vehicle that says recommended’.
I say: two cautions: if you sense knocking, irregular detonation, that would mean you tried, your computer, anti-knock is not handling it smoothly and go back to higher octane.
additives, carbon deposits, clean fuel injectors is a separate issue, he shows dirty parts, injectors .... Watch your mpg, if it drops, you must/might be getting poor detonation must/might have dirty fuel injectors ...
Like most audio items, I would never buy a new .... BMW, the late 2014 model year 2015 sticker was $121K, I got it late 2024 for $33k (with 33k miles). Bought a 6 year warranty, used it 3 times already: window regulator; oxygen sensors; blind alley camera, there's a lot ot tech on the beast.
All my vehicles: I put the recommended for several months, then try regular, ok, every once in a while run a tank of Premium, back to regular if I cannot feel/hear tell any difference, and drive hard up a hill frequently to verify you are getting good detonation, IOW make sure you are not unaware of poor detonation. The Volvo C70, just regular for 7 years.
I/we hear what we wanna, read between the lines, but we can only quote what’s there to find
"Stephen Russ, senior technical leader for gas engines at Ford, says this normal knock is usually detected and addressed within one or two combustion cycles and poses no threat to the engine. —ET"
"The Charger’s manual says 87 octane will provide "satisfactory fuel economy and performance." In our testing, "satisfactory" proved to be nearly identical to how the car performed with premium gas. Similar to the BMW, the Dodge’s gains on the dyno (14 horsepower and 23 lb-ft of torque) translated into negligible improvement in our real-world acceleration testing. Saddled with elephantine heft and eager to spin its rear all-season tires at launch, the Charger posted the same 4.9-second hustle to 60 mph on 87 and 93 octane. At triple-digit speeds, the higher power on 93 octane gave the Charger an advantage measured in tenths of a second. The Dodge also posted a 0.3-mpg improvement on premium with its average of 23.5 mpg. Just as important, the bellicose roar of the iron-block Hemi and the Charger’s ability to reduce its rear tires to jungle-gym ground cover are unaffected by the fuel in the tank."
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what they didn’t do is put 87 in the BMW or any vehicle that recommends higher, i.e. go against ’recommendation’. Who would do that? Mine’s nearly new at under 40k miles now.
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"Gasoline with a higher octane rating does not self-ignite easily, and burns more evenly than lower-octane fuel under harsh conditions, resisting detonation and knocking. Modern engines, with electronic sensors and controls, are very good at preventing detonation of lower-octane gas (this is why drivers no longer hear much knocking). But high-octane fuel is still specified when designers want to achieve better acceleration and power output, and when they are willing to accept a slightly bulkier and heavier engine with higher operating costs."
back to the 1st article: the increased power is measurably SLIGHT
"The higher-octane fuel trimmed a single tenth of a second across all of the (BMW) M5’s acceleration times.
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I’m not bragging, I might need engine repairs, just to say, I buy used cartridges, in this way also I am more of a risk taker, you win some, you lose some, I just cannot continue to feel like a sucker.
repeat: high-octane fuel is still specified when designers want to achieve better acceleration and power output
It’s barely measurable, not felt on the street. Get up that hill girl!
Buying OEM, I would pick the Ortofon 2M Mono SE (special edition Shibata).
Price; MM Technology (no SUT or MC Phono Stage needed); User Replaceable Stylus; Advanced narrow profile long contact stylus shape.
The only consideration is a stiffer/lighter cantilever material than the Tapered Aluminum, i.e. Ruby or Sapphire (colorless ruby); Boron ; Beryllium; Diamond (stiffer/reduced mass; lighter/stiffer tubes preferred over solid rods).
this is the text and 6 minute video about the Ortofon 2M MONO SE
"Leif Johannsen, Ortofon’s Chief Officer of Acoustics and Research, reveals the story behind the MONO cartridges and features the 2M MONO SE, the one MONO cartridge to play all the old and new mono records in existence, including the latest “The Beatles: The 22 Singles Collection”, released November 22, 2019."
this states ALL, which includes early/any width groove.
In the video, he mentions
1948 beginning of mono microgroove
1958 beginning of stereo microgroove
1968 stereo adopted as preferred to mono
So I conclude, prior to 1948 is not considered
he calls the SE version a "Line Contact Shibata"
So, I can conclude I could play any LP from 1948 to today with any variation of Shibata, without concern for groove damage (because they are all Line Contacts, all with minor ’patentable’ differences). (I have read that the S.A.S. claims the largest amount of contact surface).
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?????????? anyone disagree___________ ??????
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this person clearly disagrees, in which case it seems Ortofon is WRONG
"As long as you don't use a Shibata stylus on vintage mono recordings and old 45's that were designed to be played with a conical stylus.
In that event, you will likely damage your vintage records with the Shibata stylus."
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