Hovland HP-100 vs. CAT SL1 Ultimate: Feedback

jmsoul, What did you prefer about the CAT, or did not like about the HP-100?

Musicluvr, The relatively low gain of the HP-100 line stage is a concern. Some of the amps I would like to audition favor high gain pre's.

I just spent two days with a CAT Ultimate. The 26 dB gain in the line stage turned out to be too much for my system (Cary SLAM-100's power amps: 95 triode push/pull watts [don't have input spec's handy]). I think CAT provides some resistors to reduce its gain, but I did not have the manual nor the resistor packs to tame it.

Has anybody else had to reduce the gain on the CAT?

The CAT, in my system, had speed and bass to die for, no doubt about it. It had a low noise floor and maintained control over big dynamic swings. But it sounded aggressively bright, and it forced the music in a kind of hyper, fuel-injected way. The leading edge attacks were life-like, but the sustain and trailing hall sounds were stomped on by the subsequent notes. Stage depth seemed compromised and the overall sound seemed a tad dry.

I chalk the sound I got up to a gain mismatch and NOT necessarily to the CAT's normal characteristics. (I've heard the same forced quality from another high-gain pre.) The CAT also may not fit in with my cabling, amps, etc.

I hope to get an HP-100 in for an audition soon. If it sounds overly soft and euphonic, I'll revisit the CAT.

The CAT's speed and bass were pretty impressive. The HP-100 does look pretty--at least in the fold-outs. But I'm after personality, long walks with my LP's, an intimate relationship, and possible long-term commitment....

Musicluvr: Yes, the Cary SLAM-100's have a high sensitivity: .75v. And yes, the CAT was very in my face. I wrote to CAT some time ago about my experience and asked about possible ways to match the CAT and the SLAM-100 to each other better: no response.

I heard a Hovland HP-100 linestage in a different system a week ago, and the sound was soft and laid-back. Details and leading edges were a bit blunted. Since I did not hear the HP-100 in my system, it would be hard for me to place how the HP-100 figured into the overall sound I heard.

Verygigamp: triple huh?

If you mean I have to spend way more money to get decent pre-amplification, your point is well taken. But the spend-more method does not always hold true; it has to be proven on a case-by-case basis. I have heard cases in which cheaper gear actually sounded better than more expensive stuff in side-by-side comparisons.

Verybigamp/Romy: If the kinds of pre-amps we've been discussing are easily dismissed as so much "...mass-market black boxes 'for kids'." or "...typical Audiogon's coca-cola.", what is your solution to pre-amplification?

You make provocative statements but do not offer the obvious: the counter recommendation. What is your stake in any of this? Are you a manufacturer of competing products or something?

OK, since Romy will not share, the rest of us un-enlightened kids, drinking coca-cola pre-amps will just have to toil on in darkness.

Back to CAT vs. Hovland: I have a feeling, based on what I heard with the CAT in my system and from what I could gather from my HP-100 audition in another system (and from others' comments), the CAT may indeed be closer to neutral. BUT, the CAT will not properly mate electrically with the Cary SLAM-100 power-amps (aggressive, in-your-face, pre-amp output vs. power-amp input sensitivity mismatch, etc). This must also be the case with some other power-amps out there.

Ken Stevens (or anybody else at CAT) has not responded to my query about this. Back to square one.

Tonestudio: Please tell us what power amps you used with the CAT pre-amps you have had. Musicluvr just mentioned that he had similar "mating" problems with the CAT and his Plinius amps. (Thanks, Musicluvr) I am sure that you are right about the CAT not being the at fault in a system in which the CAT and the power amps actually electrically mate properly with each other, but what about a sheer electrical mismatch?

I have to consider that other pre-amps like the cj LS16 sounded down-right subdued in my system, the likelihood that changing speaker placement is really not the issue. The (early version) First Sound Presence pre-amp sounds laid back and smooth in my system. My M3A is not aggressive with the speakers right were they are. I have a Lamm LL2 in for an audition and will start listening tonight. This will give me no fewer than four other pre-amps to compare with the CAT's sound in my system.

Don't get me wrong; I am not claiming that the CAT is an aggressive-sounding piece. I know that it does not sound that way in lots of systems. The CAT just does not have the right output impedance for my pwr amps.

The M3A "over-drove" the ASL Hurrican DT-200s also. This is not limited to CAT pre's and Cary pwr amps by any means.

Thank you, Musicluvr, for your feed back about your CAT experience. I suspected an output-to-input mismatch--just as you confirmed--because I had similar experiences with a Wright Sound dedicated phono pre-amps several years ago. It's nice to get that second experiential corroboration

I am beginning to wonder if many folks are overlooking the matching characteristics of the pre-amp to pwr-amp interface. Everyone pays lots of attention to amp-to-speaker matching, but the pre-to-pwr match involves much of the same issues; they're just at a much wider range of allowed mating than amp-to-speaker. Both involve output impedance and gain relative to input impedance and sensitivity.

Swampwalker and Gregm: Thank you for your tips. My Cary dealer asked the main tech guy at Cary (Kirk) about reducing the SLAM-100's input sensitivity. He said he could increase negative feedback but does not recommend it. Also, a resistor at the input would screw up the amps' sound, apparently. Cary does not recommend modifying the SLAM-100's.

Finally heard a Hovland HP-100 in my system. It mates impedance- and gain wise quite well with the Cary SLAM-100 pwr amps, but it just sounded congealed and colored to me. I am sure it does not sound this way in most systems. It may just reveal other mismatches in my system, for all I know.

Since hearing the CAT some weeks ago, I've sought out other pre-amps: Lamm LL2, First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0, and my AI M3A was always on hand. The Hovland and FS overlapped in my system for two days. The First Sound sounds quite a bit better than the Hovland in my system in every regard: speed, truthful tonal balance, inner detail, dynamics, etc. The Hovland also could not deliver the bass extension or impact of the CAT, the Lamm LL2, the AI M3A, or the First Sound. The HP-100's somewhat lacking bass showing may be the result of a poor synergy elsewhere in my system. Don't know. I loved the look and feel of the HP-100. It does not have clunky outboard power supplies that you have to route stiff cords to and place some where near the main pre-amp unit like so many other pre's.

To my ear in my system, the First Sound is a revelatory experience; it's so life-like that it takes one aback. Gone are many elements of electronic music play back that I had accepted as givens: circular sheen around female vocalists when amplitude increases, confused haze when cymbals crash, obvious dynamic compression, etc. The FS makes sense of the music instead of just presenting a clean signal. It is very clean, but it's also eminently musically meaningful. It does not roll the highs off at all. Details are there in abundance; it just doesn't scream at you to reveal them.