Hovland HP-100 phono vs Audio Research REF Phono 2

Stickman,

I am a little bit confused about the comparison. Are you comparing the stand-alone Ref. 2 phonostage (feeding what linestage?) to the built-in phonostage of the Hovland? Are you looking for recommendations for just a phonostage or for a combination of phonostage and a linestage? Do you like the Hovland as a linestage (i.e., when used with a CD player or other line level source).

I am less familiar with the HP-100 than with the HP-200. A friend's HP-200 sounded dramatically better when the tubes in the phono section were replaced with NOS 12AX7s (Amperex Bugle Boys). The sound became much more dynamic and the soundstage expanded. Before you consider replacing the HP-100, you should experiment with alternative tubes.

Stickman,

It is not surprising that a stand-alone phonostage, particularly one as expensive as the Ref. 2, improved upon the built-in phonostage of the Hovland. Not that many built-in stages have impressed me that much (the Audionote M-8 is an exception, albeit a VERY expensive exception).

Sorry to hear that you had bad results with the Mullards. I've heard Mullard 12AX7s in my phonostage (Viva Fono), a Tron Seven and the HP-200. I did not particularly like the Mullards myself. In the Tron Seven, in particular, the Mullards sounded very strange and phasey.

Given the price of some of the rarer 12AX7s and 5751s, I can understand a reluctance to experiment, but, I think that with something as good as the Hovland, it is worth the effort. For a warm, rich sound, Amperex Bugle Boys are worth looking into; for a more dynamic, but leaner sound, I like Telefunkens. I run the Telefunken ECC803S in my phonostage (lean, with extended highs and extremely dynamic), but these have become exceedingly expensive.

I agree with Topoxforddoc that the Tron is also worth looking into. I know that the designer insists that the supplied tubes provide the best sound, but, to me, that is a matter of system matching and taste. I thought the Amperex Bugle Boys sounded the best in the Tron Seven in the system I heard (MUCH better than the manufacturer supplied tubes). I think it is a big advantage of tube phonostages that the sound can be optimized by changing tubes.

Stickman,

I am not sure of the precise designation of the Amperex tubes. I got them free from a friend who has a vast store of tubes so I am relying on his judgment as to which are drop in replacements for the NOS RCA tubes suppli by the manufacturer of my phonostage. He gave me the pair I have, plus the pair of Telefunken ECC83s, Mullards, and GE 5751s. The only pair I had to buy myself was the Telefunken ECC803S (which easily costs more than all the others combined).

Lewm,

Thanks for the detailed information on the various tube types. Yes, the 5751 is a lower gain tube, but in almost all applications it does work in place of a 12AX7 or 12AT7. But, I think it is also worth mentioning that tube swapping MAY be problematic with phonostages if RIAA equalization is not done passively.

By the way, I did not say that one-box preamps are inevitably inferior. I said that most of the ones I heard were not that impressive and noted that the Audionote M-8 is one exception. I think that the M-8 costs over $30k. I have, though I don't current use it, a Mark Levinson No. 32 with a built-in phonostage. Contrary to the opinion of reviewers, I think that that phonostage (built on two cards that slot into the back of the unit) is not very good (the No. 32 is a pretty expensive preamp). I've heard Shindo preamps that sounded very good, though I don't specifically recall whether the built-in phono was outstanding too.

You are correct that there is a big advantage to building in the phonostage -- a long run of interconnect cable and inevitably crappy RCA jack interface is eliminated. But, many of the better phonostages cannot be built into another component because they take up WAY too much space. For instance, my current phonostage has a separate power supply that is bigger than most power amplifiers (it uses two 300B tubes as rectifiers).