Never heard the 4367’s so I can’t comment on them. But looking at that 3" Mid/Highs driver with massive horn crossing over to a 15" at 700hz makes me curious.
Cheers George
Cheers George
Showing 11 responses by georgehifi
Okay. But have you heard them?Yes as I've said elsewhere on Agon, I've owned Lascala's, and Forte, a friend owned K-horns and Heresy, in a large converted warehouse. Enjoyable wall of sound all of them, but not precise visual image placement in-between and outside the speaker, and not much depth perception. Cheers George |
That’s a BIG reason I own Focal. Every time I heard their speakers they were honest and imaged with startling depth, width, and dynamics.A friend who owns a hifi shop, Len Wallis Audio had the Grand Utopia’s setup driven by Krells in the main room, I listened to them many times and yes, there is no way any horns or JBL’s (my friend had a pair of 4350’s and the very ugly Synthesis 1400), I’ve heard have come close to doing visual image placement in-between and outside the speakers and depth perception like these Focals could, or many ESL’s can either. Cheers George |
I’m willing to sacrifice a tad of dynamics for better imaging. I can totally understand how somebody would reverse those priorities and deem horns virtually perfect.That’s not just the only problem, then there’s the "horn" (gain coloration) to contend with as well, not to be confused with the far shallower wave guides ( pattern control ) as some will try to bring into it. Cheers George |
After living with my jbl 4367 for a month, I just don’t see how imaging could be improved that much more.Do yourself a favor and maybe listen to some relatively cheap Audio Physics speakers, to see what image placement in between and outside the speakers and 3D depth perspective is all about. Then say come back and the same. Cheers George |
+1 Jim , exactly what I found, even with today's horn loaded speakers, like Avantguard range ect, a wall of sound I call it without much pinpoint image placement and depth perception, like all the esl's, planers and ribbons you mentioned can do. Still enjoyable, just not my cup of tee to live with. Cheers George |
It was a demo’d in Sydney by the Maggie importer at the time at a clients converted warehouse who used k-horn, amps used were bought along by Allen Wright (rip), which were heavily modded tube theatre mono block amps and bought my massive water cooled 150w Pure-Class-A S/S. there were 10 of us we all thought the same. But the owner of the warehouse and the K-Horns (which came last in image and depth perception), bought the Tympani’s instead because they did fill/drive the massive room better than the narrower models could. Cheers George |
horns can image as well as any other tech.This is a false statement. Klipsch, set up correctly, they can " disappear " as well as any other design. However, imaging and sound staging are not the attributes that I enjoy most about them+1 MrD "Wall of sound", and "image/depth placement" to me are separate identities. "Wall of sound" is heard not really seen eg: Horns, Headphones. "Image and depth placement" is seen and heard, ribbons, esl's, ect. Any diffuser that radiates the sound so it's splashes/spreads the sound left and right across the room and will also gives added room reflections, will give a "wall of sound" effect which is pleasing to some (aka Bose 901's). But will totally trash precise image placement and depth perception. This was demo'ed to us the whole range of Magnepan speakers and Klipsch K-Horns, the best "imaging/depth perception" one was the narrowest Maggie, but it was also only a one man hot seat, the worst was the Maggie Tympani and the K-Horn which were the largest "wall of sound" effect, but as for "image and depth" perception their was virtually none. Also if an owner puts all his gear on stands in between the speakers, is asking to diminish his image and depth perception. The great Nevile Thiel (rip) once told me this and he was right, once I shifted all the gear to the side instead I never look back, no matter how nice and glitzy it looked in between the speakers. Cheers George |
Mostly a speaker that has a narrower highs and upper mids "hot spot" (beaming) is the better at imaging eg: quads (especially 57’s), ML’s, Acoustat most esl’s, ribbons tweeters and Maggie longer full length ribbon ones. Horns tend to give a wall of sound, but rarely can image pinpoint in the horizontal and vertical and depth like the above ones mentioned can. Image masters were the Acoustat 1+1 and the 1’s also 57 Quads, because of their narrow trebble/mid panel, which were all a one man speaker for the hot spot, and your head had to be in a vice. Acoustat 1+1 https://img.ukaudiomart.com/uploads/large/260124-accoustat_11_with_medalion_interface_mk_121c.jpg Acoustat 1 http://img.usaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1496795-acoustat-1-1-electrostatic-speaker-pair-plus-medall... Cheers George |
For me MrD, I want to see every movement visually, when Miles turns slightly left or right or even facing up then down blatting away on that horn and imagine those fingers moving up and down those valves, as the sound and the visual gives me the complete experience, this is why I opt for big ESL's. Or I suppose I could sacrifice that and have TV between the speakers to make up for the visual side and play dvd music discs. For me not just a wall of sound where the trumpet seems to be an edge-less 8ft tall and wide, same goes with singers mouths, I can get that far cheaper yet not as nice from used Bose 901’s this is where the tv would come in handy. Cheers George |