Home Theater Receiver recommendations for B&W 803S?


Hi!  I'm on the hunt for a new receiver, since I recently upgraded my main speakers, and I'd like to have one that also passes 4K signal.  

My current setup:

Denon AVR-4308CI
Left & Right: B&W 803S
Center: B&W HTM2
Surrounds B&W 301
Sub: Energy 8"

I recently upgraded to the 803S's on the left/right; replacing my original Nautilus 805's.  Now I need to upgrade the rest of the system!

I think the first step is the receiver, especially since I'd like to be able to pass 4K to my projector.   Then will likely upgrade the sub (Am considering the Monoprice Monolith, 10" or 12"...). And I'm also on the hunt for a HTM3S, to better match the 803S's. 

I'd love to know what Receiver recommendations folks have that will pair nicely with these speakers.  Ideally under ~$2K  - and I really don't care much about other bells & whistles (multi zone, bluetooth, wifi, whatever). I'd rather the money go into the best possible D/A, amplifiers, etc... and leave other tech gadgetry to other boxes.

Appreciate any/all input! Thanks!  :)






awilder

Showing 13 responses by caphill

You will not do those B&W 803S justice by using an AV receiver. I would avoid using an AV receiver for those speakers. 
I suggest you go for AV separates (av pre pro + power amp) for those speakers. But you will never find even used AV separate gears for under $2k. It will be tough especially of you're looking for the most current AV gear that can decode the latest formats and codecs and pass through 4k HDR etc. 
@auxinput @awilder

The current model Classe Sigma SSP Mk2 retails for $6k new and even used it will be in around $4k ish since it supports the latest formats and is current model as far as I know. I’m worried that the Sigma SSP that you saw for sale for $2408 was possibly the original first gen Sigma SSP that does not support 4K and all other current formats, that’s why it’s being offered for sale for $2408 because it’s been replaced by the Sigma SSP Mk2. The original retail price of the Sigma SSP (first gen) was $5k.

The Classe Sigma SSP is optimized for stereo. If the OP focus more on home theater I would go with the Marantz AV8802 as it’s also easier to calibrate for surrounds using its Audyssey auto room correction. The Classe lacks auto room correction but provides manual PEQ instead which requires proper tools and equipments and knowledge on how to implement it. The Marantz AV8802 is much easier to calibrate using its built-in Audyssey even though I’m not a fan of Audyssey at all.

For stereo music, we did compare the Classe Sigma SSP with the Marantz AV8802 and both processors were paired with Classe Delta CAM-300 monoblock amps (class AB) on B&W 802 D3 speakers before at my friend’s shop and the Sigma SSP sounded better for stereo music playbacks more musical and better sound overall. We used the Sigma SSP’s USB input to stream music and we did the same with the Marantz AV8802. The Classe Sigma SSP also has better DAC configuration/implementation at least for the front LR channels and has superb USB input implementation in its signal path, which is copied and pasted from Classe CP 800 stereo preamp/DAC. 

But for surround sound movies (home theater) both of them performed great but I would recommend the Marantz AV8802 for the OP if his primary focus is home theater and it’s easier to properly calibrate using its Audyssey auto room correction. The manual PEQ on the Classe is much more difficult to properly calibrate and becomes a deal breaker for some people.

Agree with auxinput on the Rotel RMB-1585 amp. You should definitely grab that used Rotel RMB-1585 five-channel power amp on Audiogon for $2099. New retail price is $3k. I highly recommend this amp. My buddy has this amp in his home theater room driving the B&W 804 D3 speaker system. Very refined very musical with smooth highs and rich tonal and natural mid-range bloom and bottom end grunt. The sound was fluif, liquid, effortless and very analog. Highly recommended! This amp is very well built and has lots of power reserve to drive just about any demanding speakers effortlessly. This amp is huge massive and very heavy weighing in around 81 lbs. Do not hesitate to buy this amp.

The Rotel will sound very goon on the B&W. They usually have good synergy together. 
Agreed. Emotiva is great for the money but Rotel & NAD alikes are better but cost a little more than the Emotiva. Rotel still offers great value considering their modest asking prices but are not on the same level as real high end or higher priced Krell, Pass, Hegel, Classe, Audio Research, McIntosh, Naim, Linn, Vitus Audio, and the list goes on and on and on
@awilder

Congrats on the purchase! I think you made the right choice. Since the RMB-1585 is huge and very heavy I suggest you put it on an amplifier stand on the floor. The Rotel RMB-1585 never runs hot no matter how hard you drive it. It stays cool the whole time.

You will be happy with its performance has plenty of muscle and unlimited power reserve to drive just about any speakers and it will sound good on your B&W 803S. The noise floor is surprisingly very quiet especially for the price.
This amp is much better than your Denon receiver’s internal power amplifiers or any receiver’s internal amplifiers.

Now you just need to purchase good quality analog interconnects to connect from your Denon receiver’s preamp outputs to the inputs on the Rotel RMB-1585 amp. Do not skimp on cables. I would suggest that you also upgrade the power cord. The stock power cord wouldn't do a good job.

Later down the road you can sell the Denon receiver and get a good quality AV preamp surround processor (pre pro). The recently discontinued Marantz AV8802 and the discontinued Classe Sigma SSP version 1 will be a great choice. But the Classe Sigma SSP version 1 (not Mk2) does not support 4k video, Dolby Atmos, DTS-X & other latest formats & codecs so it can be had for around $2500 to $3k range in used markets. The Classe Sigma SSP Mk2 supports 4k, hdcp 2.2, Dolby Atmos but you will probably end up paying more or even full price $6k since it support The latest formats. The Marantz AV8802 supports 4k hdcp 2.2, Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, Auro 3D and can be had for around $2k to $2500 in used markets since it's recently been discontinued. 

IMO the Classe Sigma SSP will pair better with the Rotel RMB-1585 amp cause the Rotel RMB-1585 is warm with smooth highs and isn't the last word in resolution, inner details, nuances and transparency. The Classe Sigma SSP is very transparent, excels in detail retrieval, nuances and resolution. The Sigma SSP sounded very resolved, fast and clean. So it will compliment the Rotel RMB-1585 warmth liquid and fluid sound. The Marantz AV8802 however is somewhat warm and the details, transparency, nuances aren't as good as the Classe Sigma SSP. Therefore, the Classe Sigma SSP will pair better with the Rotel RMB-1585 amp. 

Let us know of what you think of the Rotel RMB-1585 amp once you receive it. 
Hahaha....yup...the Rotel does not get roasting hot even when driven hard. It barely gets warm to the touch. That's all.
But you still need some room ventilation around the amp. I wouldn't put it in a confined closed cabinet or rack if I were you. Ideally, it will be best placing it on an amplifier stand on the floor partly due to its weight and mass and size. 


One thing to be cautious about this Rotel RMB-1585 amp is that it does not have any front or rear handles so handling it makes it hard due to the weight and size of this amp. You can never lift it up by yourself. It’s a 2 men job. It weighs in around 80 lbs. This amp has 2 main toroidal transformer power supplies stacked up together. When you open up the upper case you can only see 1 toroidal transformer and the other one is below it. One feeds power to the main LR channels and the other one feeds power to a center and surround channels.
@awilder 

Don't forget to let us know how the Rotel RMB-1585 performs and sounds on your B&W 803S when you receive the amp and whether the center speaker that you are getting from the seller makes a big difference. 
Awesome! The Rotel RMB-1585 is indeed a fine great amp and has plenty of unlimited power reserve to be able to drive just about any speakers out there, and at $3k retail price I think it’s a steal. This amp is built like a tank. You should upgrade the AC power cord for this amp as it will make big difference.
My cousin has this same Rotel RMB-1585 in his HT setup driving all B&W 804 D3 front speakers with a matching HTML2 D3 center and a pair of 805 D3 for surrounds. He couldn’t be happier with his current setup. He’s also using the Marantz AV8802 pre pro.

In the beginning when he first purchased the AV8802 processor he paired it with the Marantz MM8807 seven-channel power amp but he wasn’t satisfied with the performance and felt like the power amp was holding back his system’s performance and after 2 months living with this MM8077 amp he was able to upgrade to the Rotel RMB-1585 amp and the difference between these 2 amps were huge. The Rotel RMB-1585 is night and day better than the Marantz MM8077 seven-channel amp regardless of whether you use it for stereo music playbacks or surround movies (HT).

The Marantz MM8077 is not a good amp at all especially in comparison to the Rotel RMB-1585. The RMB-1585 is much more refined musical and fluid and lot more solid than the MM8077. It is better in all areas. No comparison. The MM8077 is cheaper than the RMB-1585 and you get more channels of amplification than the Rotel. The Marantz MM8077 retails for only $2300 brand new whereas the RMB-1585 is $3k new.

You can easily tell the differences in size, mass and weight between these two amplifiers. The Rotel RMB-1585 is huge massive and weighs in about 80 lbs and it is only a five-channel amp. The Marantz MM8077 is much smaller and weighs in only at around 43 lbs and yet it is a seven-channel amp, has more channels of amplification than the Rotel.
The MM8077 has only one main toroidal transformer power supply for all 7 channels whereas the RMB-1585 has 2 main large toroidal transformer power supplies for only 5 channels. And the Rotel’s toroidal transformer power supplies are of better quality than that of the Marantz MM8077 amp.

Again glad that you’re happy with your amp purchase. Keep us posted of your first impression of the Marantz AV8802 that you just purchased. You got a great deal on that processor cause the original retail price of the AV8802 was $4k when it was still in production and this model was just recently discontinued and replaced by the AV8805. And the AV8802A supports pretty much current formats and codecs except maybe it does not support Dolby Vision and the latest HDR on the video side of things. Are you sure that the AV8802 that you bought is in working condition make sure it isn’t a defect unit or nothing’s wrong with the unit. Cause the price that you paid was unbelievably cheap. I know that these Japanese mass produced AV manufacturers (Denon Marantz Onkyo/Integra Yamaha Pioneer Sony) don’t hold their resale values well.
@awilder

In regards to your Marantz 8802, I bet the Audyssey was still turned on from a previous owner's configuration and I suggest you turn the Audyssey calibration off. That was probably the reason why the performance was a bit off. Until you receive the Audyssey setup microphone then you can start doing your own calibration for your room, or you can also leave the Audyssey off the whole time. It’s up to you to decide whether you like it with Audyssey on or off.

You should upgrade the power cords for your Marantz 8802 and your Rotel RMB-1585 as well as for your bluray player and other source components. Especially the Rotel RMB-1585 is a high current five-channel power amp, you definitely have to upgrade the power cord for it.

The Marantz 8802 was great for home theater use and performs almost flawlessly. I have heard it in my own HT setup and system before paired with all my Classe Delta series class AB amps on the B&W 800 D3 speaker surround system. My cousin also owns one paired with the same Rotel RMB-1585 amp and the combo performed really well on his B&W 804 D3 surround speaker system.

However, to me the 8802 isn’t good enough when used as a stereo preamp for stereo music playbacks. Maybe I have high expectations cause I don’t use my AV preamp processor for stereo music listening since I have a separate reference setup and system in a separate dedicated well treated 2ch listening room that consist of cost-no-object design gears and accessories and high end cables, etc.
If and when budget permits you should consider getting a good quality dedicated analog stereo linestage preamp that has HT bypass input so you can connect your Marantz 8802 pre-out for front LR channels to this HT bypass input on the stereo preamp thus disabling the volume in the stereo preamp when this HT bypass input is selected. Keep the Marantz 8802 for surround duties only. Then for your stereo music playbacks you will have to get a good quality digital front end components (CD/SACD player or/and a streamer/DAC or a standalone DAC) and connect via analog to a stereo analog linestage preamp. So when listening to stereo music the Marantz 8802 isn’t in the signal path at all and you don’t even have to turn it on. Your bluray player and other AV sources are still connected to the Marantz 8802. Basically just leave the Marantz 8802 for surround duties for movies (HT).

For your stereo music source component if you can find a used Modwright Oppo 205 player and you can use this for everything : CD/HDCD, SACD, DVD-Audio, bluray, DVD Video, 4k UHD bluray disc playbacks and run the 205 via HDMI & coax to the Marantz 8802 for surround movie playbacks and run a pair of stereo XLR balanced interconnects out of the Oppo 205 directly to a stereo analog preamp for 2ch music playbacks. The Modwright mod only affects the stereo analog audio output stages on the Oppo 205 and this is the best mods that Dan Modwright has ever done. Comes with an external PSU unit that feeds power to the stereo analog audio output stages only. The Modwright mods are tube based. The Modwright Oppo 205 includes total redesign of its stereo analog audio output stages which includes replacement of op-amps with a discrete class A output stages in its stereo analog output stages as well as true differential or fully balanced design implementation with its stereo analog output stages. This mod also includes further dampening of the Oppo’s disc transport. This fully modded Modwright Oppo 205 will elevate the player’s performance to near reference quality.
I have heard this Modwright Oppo 205 before in my own reference 2ch setup and it was very good. It’s highly musical and very analog sounding while it doesn’t perform on the same level as my DCS Vivaldi full four stacks digital front end components but I must say that the Modwright Oppo 205 is still quite impressive considering the added total costs of the modifications and a cost of the stock Oppo 205 alone.

But all these will cost you quote a bit : good quality stereo analog linestage preamp and a good quality digital front end source component(s) for your stereo music listening needs such as the Modwright Oppo 205.


I’m positive when set up properly the Marantz 8802 will outperform your Denon receiver’s preamp processing section.
It took me by surprise when you said earlier that you preferred the Denon over the Marantz 8802. Hard to believe.
I thought awilder is now open to spend way more than originally anticipated. 
Yup...I think power cord upgrade is a must for both the Marantz 8802 and the Rotel RMB-1585 amp. Especially the Rotel RMB-1585 is a high current five-channel amp. A stock power cord won't do any good and will limit currents needed for the amp. 
Interconnects and speakers cables need upgrade as well.