Holy Moly Blu-Ray Disc Players below $300

Jkalman, wow, where did that come from? Look, I was simply relaying my personal experiences with the two formats and I'm not sure why you feel the need to attack me in your reply.

I didn't attack you. It was faulty logic on your part and you are using that faulty logic to blame an entire format for the problems you are having with one piece of Samsung equipment. In other words, you are generalizing all of Blu-Ray under one umbrella because of your experiences with one piece of playback equipment from a single manufacturer.

If you can't handle someone deconstructing what you post when what you post is faulty, then perhaps you should think more about what you post before clicking the "submit" button, or perhaps consider not posting at all. It certainly would be better than watching you play the victim when someone points out the nonsensical reasoning in your posts.

I'd be careful what you listen to in this thread. I own the PS3 and use it for Blu-Ray and it looks and works phenomenally. None of the stuttering or "strange" playback issues mentioned. I also have the XBox 360 HD-DVD add-on and have had no overwhelming issues with that either. Sure the HD-DVD add-on isn't as great overall compared to the PS3, but that is only because of the slight differences between 1080i and 1080p, i.e. there is a slight loss of overall smoothness.

I wouldn't listen to anyone saying that "all" players from one camp or the others aren't good, or are garbage, or "insert blatantly prejudiced statement here." Those people are just looking to get people to buy the format they chose to buy.

Underneath all the bologna there is one major technological difference in the long term between these two formats. One has more storage potential than the other one when all things are equal (since they both can add multiple layers...). That format is Blu-Ray.

Cruz123 meet Jkalman. Beware, he doesn't play well with others. Don't argue with him, just walk away. There is no winning any discussion with Jkalman, for he is the Alpha Dog, his opinions are never wrong. Just smile and walk away........slowly.......goooood Jkalman......that's a good boy......

Honey, shouldn't you be watching our kids? What's for dinner tonight? Go out and buy yourself something pretty... ;)

Thats an opinion of course. But a lot of what I am laying out in this post is fact.

Nope. Most of what you are presenting is hearsay.

Whether or not there are "not a lot of manufacturing plants yet" is really meaningless. You can always convert plants or build new ones as needed. The point is, Blu-Ray discs have more capacity per layer per side than HD-DVD. End of story.

I own over 50 Blu-Ray discs, and have rented even more than that. So far I have not seen any issues with Blu-Ray discs not working or not playing due to spots, scratches or whatever else. Besides which, ALL formats suffer from occasional bad batches. I've occasionally had to return regular DVDs over the years due to manufacturing issues. So far I haven't had to return any Blu-Ray discs, but I guarantee that all formats (DVD, HD-DVD, and yes, Blu-Ray) will occasionally have bad batches where something buggy happened while making the discs. The companies producing Blu-Ray discs use special coatings to make the discs scratch resistant as well, making the whole scratched-surface argument pointless IMO. Are you going to take care of your discs or use them as frisbees?

The Blu-Ray specs are in place as well. Blu-Ray is currently using LPCM, but can also use any of the DTS and Dolby standards. Your comment that "you have no idea what you are going to get on the Blu Ray side" is garbage. There are only so many audio standards out there for video discs and Blu-Ray is designed to be backwards compatible by making important older codecs mandatory. Blu-Ray players are designed to support at least the mandatory codecs, so you do not have to worry about being able to play audio or video. Audio is not and will not be an issue.

As far as PS3s working with BD-J (Java). They will work, all that is required is software/firmware updates to the PS3. Java is a programming language, so all it would require is an operating system (or operating environment, or user interface environment - i.e. an embedded software or firmware OS like every preprocessor and digital source unit already has) that can execute Java runtime code. You can run Linux on a PS3, and Linux runs and executes (as well as compiles) Java source code. I should know, I used to do a lot of programming in it.

Stop trying to scare people...

For anyone with any doubts check out the links, but please don't put stock in the bologna people perpetuate about either format:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hd-dvd

You can say whatever you want after this post, because it is clear to me that you are not interested in fact, but perpetuating hearsay and insignificant details as being important for the sake of scaring potential Blu-Ray customers.

JBach Dec 20, 2007 2:24 AM GMT As a content producer I find there are three issues that wipe out Blu-Ray: 1.) Almost all Blu-Ray players cannot reliably render the content of an authored Blu-Ray disc. Authored discs play most reliably only on the PS3. The profile describing the requirements to build a Blu-Ray player is STILL INCOMPLETE, which is part of this problem. Reliable playback of a Blu-Ray disc being restricted to a PS3 player is a major issue in the business world. ADVANTAGE HD-DVD.

This is bologna and total hearsay. I don't care who the guy is, that doesn't exclude him from being biased. As a content provider it is likely he is programming/providing for one format only (HD-DVD) and as such already has a large stake to lose if he supports the opposite format.

You are talking about someone, by the way, who posted on a Business Week "readers' comments" page. How do you know he is really a content provider? You don't. Besides the fact that it is not true, it is also total hearsay. For all you know, he provides books to the local library. Even if he is a content provider of HD content, that doesn't exclude him from being biased and/or exclude him from committing hearsay himself...

This person is certainly not an authority on the topic worth quoting as "factual." Do you often take random posts by people you don't know to be the truth, or do you only do so when their posts support your agenda?

http://app.businessweek.com/UserComments/combo_review;jsessionid=862634CAE1C8D69DEA23B4C4BC7E1407?action=all&style=wide&productId=25088&productCode=spec

2.)Blu-Ray advanced authoring requires a Java-based programming environment. HD-DVD authoring is much like creating a web page. Blu-Ray becomes a programmer project, HD-DVD remains more of a web designer prosumer project. ADVANTAGE HD-DVD.

This is complete BS. I program in both HTML and Java. Any programming language task can be automated to make it as simple as cutting and pasting using a SDE. Also, you don't have to start from scratch if you know how to create a template. Then you can start from the template any time you start a new disc. The person who wrote that bologna knows nothing about programming.

Making reusable objects in java allows you to shift certain parameters in those objects to change the look and feel of an interface without having to reprogram the entire thing. You can also make an interface for those parameters so you can change those parameters on the fly. In case you didn't know, HTML is built on top of another programming language in just such a way. That means that the Blu-Ray Java is MORE robust... Any company can choose to create its own XML or HTML interface and reuse it every time they make a disc. This also allows them more options to control every aspect of the discs interface at the very core. This allows more design freedom and uniqueness on a per disc basis.

3.)The effort to retrofit a replication plant to do Blu-Ray is VERY significant. HD-DVD replication can be accomplished on a much smaller scale. While this is a one-time factor, the ease and relatively low cost of HD-DVD retrofitting makes more economic sense. ADVANTAGE HD-DVD.

This is true. It is more expensive initially to convert a DVD plant to Blu-Ray than it is to convert it to HD-DVD. I think it is worth the additional costs personally since the format gives you more storage space. I look at this from a practical standpoint of computer storage and backup. I'm interested in backing up large amounts of data from my computer, and Blu-Ray has more space.

None the less, I still use both formats, though I would prefer Blu-Ray to win because of the greater storage capacity...

Here is some information about storage capacities from JKalman's Wikipedia Link. This is exactly what I was referring to as far as most Blu Ray disks being 25 GB to Hd-DVDs 30 GB as an FYI.

As of November 2007, 44% of Blu-ray titles use the 50 GB disc and 56% use the 25 GB disc[90] while almost all HD DVD movies are in the 30 GB dual layer format.[91]

Not a huge deal at this point but does clarify and support what I was trying to say.

You don't get it... Those HD-DVD discs are using two layers to get a little bit more space than one layer on a Blu-Ray disc. That is A LOT less storage capacity. It doesn't make sense to use more than you need, so why would they use dual layers unless it is necessary? Why spend the extra money until you need to use two layers? HD-DVD, needs two layers in order to compete with one layer on the Blu-Ray discs... So they HAVE to use two layers on every disc in order to fit the information on it. That isn't a good thing for HD-DVD, that is a weakness.

A HD-DVD needs three layers to get one more gigabyte than a dual layer Blu-Ray disc. That is a huge discrepancy in storage space comparison wise.

Blu-Ray capacity:

Single layer = 25 GB
Dual layer = 50 GB

HD-DVD capacity:

Single layer = 15 GB
Dual layer = 30 GB
Triple layer = 51 GB

Blu-Ray has managed to achieve four layers on a disc, but so far does not have a need to implement the additional storage space, but for people interested in removable storage, that is a tremendous perk down the road.

My Blu-Ray experience has been more frustrating (Samsung 1200) because it seems that every time certain studios (Disney/Fox) release a new line of movies I have to wait about a month on a firmware update before they will play in my player. Therefore, it is clear to me that the technology behind Blu-ray is still evolving.

That is quiet an irrational jump in logic. That since your specific Samsung equipment has a lot of problems, therefore it is the Blu-Ray format's fault. Quite the logical fallacy.

I've never had a problem with my player that wasn't resolved within 5 minutes via a download, and that was only once with the recent "Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End" disc release. I've never had a single problem before that, and I have over 50 Blu-Ray discs and have played a lot more Blu-Ray discs in my system when you add in all of my Blockbuster Video Blu-Ray rentals...

Perhaps you should focus your negative attention where it belongs, at Samsung.