The level of holographic sound, etc. is dependent on system voicing, i.e. everything in your system including the room. That stated some are more naturally holographic.
Two of my three systems are:
1. The valve/tube amps in the first system are extremely holographic to the point, where a non-audiophile musician noticed it. She remarked without prompting by me and in her own words, "Wow, incredible big sound, but not loud and just BIG. Do you have speakers behind the walls? The music from the orchestra sounds like it is coming from several feet on the other side of the walls." I switched the system to solid state amps and she stated that it was good and more "punchier," but not as 3D and lacked "crisp natural sounding cymbals."
2. Switching to the second system (ESLs with high power), she said, "This is good, but . . . well, fatiguing and more in your face. The singer sounds like her head is 6 feet tall with a 3 foot mouth. I would get tired of this after a while, but is a good/different sound." Me, "More intimate?" Her, "Yes. More intimate."
Both auditions were from the same roon labs qobuz 192x24 source using the same OEM model DACs.
I noticed that your Wharfedales (I am a fan of them, because like me they are from the UK) are very insensitive--think large earth-based telescope. High sensitivity is like the Hubble telescope devoid of atmospheric interference. Why? One hears a lot of details (some unwanted like noisy amps, and yes most are "A" rated by Stereophile) and content simply not reproduced on lower sensitivity regardless of SPL or amplification, DACs, phono, etc. Think of insensitive speakers of having an atmosphere or lens in the way.
I am a fan and own both systems, and that is why there is no perfect system for many reasons. That’s what makes the hobby fun.
I listen to the ESLs system 20 times more often, than the big sounding 105db sensitivity system. Why? I can abuse the ESLs system and don’t care or give a damn. There are way too many sand (silicon) based amps out there for sale and speakers that love them. So, it is easy to price and replace. The system is on 24x7 and gets plenty of abuse. Robust it is.
OTOH the "tube" base system requires more TLC, warmup, and voicing with the right amps is a b*tch to get right. Most amps are noisy, e.g. I have a pair of Canary M-80s that "hum" (no, it’s not a ground loop, etc. it is the amp) with tube rush that sounds like a babbling brook. Nothing wrong with the install or system. That’s the pitfall of a sensitivity system. Very few amps sound quiet and good. The quiet amps are choked to death with negative feedback, unity, or push/pull designs. After 40 years with this system I’ve tried/bought/borrowed/auditioned just about everything.
Bottom-line:
System#1 is extremely holographic, but extremely finicky and sometimes fragile . . . like a centuries old Scotch . . . use sparingly.
System#2 is not holographic and not fragile. Devil-may-care attitude applies.
And yes, everyone should have more than one system at both ends of sensitivity. Listening to the same source on two extremely different systems is like doubling one’s music collection. :)
Remember that there is no single "god" system. Voicing and a room smaller than 40ft x 40ft x 40ft impacts the sound, because the SWR goes up in small/tiny rooms (anything lower than 40ft ceiling). Yes, one can "fool" ears with room treatments into thinking that the SWR is low, but it isn’t. The standing waves are still there.
Best rooms out there?
Have fun.
Cheers,
g
Two of my three systems are:
- A 105dB sensitivity system--holographic
- A 89dB sensitivity system--non-holographic
1. The valve/tube amps in the first system are extremely holographic to the point, where a non-audiophile musician noticed it. She remarked without prompting by me and in her own words, "Wow, incredible big sound, but not loud and just BIG. Do you have speakers behind the walls? The music from the orchestra sounds like it is coming from several feet on the other side of the walls." I switched the system to solid state amps and she stated that it was good and more "punchier," but not as 3D and lacked "crisp natural sounding cymbals."
2. Switching to the second system (ESLs with high power), she said, "This is good, but . . . well, fatiguing and more in your face. The singer sounds like her head is 6 feet tall with a 3 foot mouth. I would get tired of this after a while, but is a good/different sound." Me, "More intimate?" Her, "Yes. More intimate."
Both auditions were from the same roon labs qobuz 192x24 source using the same OEM model DACs.
I noticed that your Wharfedales (I am a fan of them, because like me they are from the UK) are very insensitive--think large earth-based telescope. High sensitivity is like the Hubble telescope devoid of atmospheric interference. Why? One hears a lot of details (some unwanted like noisy amps, and yes most are "A" rated by Stereophile) and content simply not reproduced on lower sensitivity regardless of SPL or amplification, DACs, phono, etc. Think of insensitive speakers of having an atmosphere or lens in the way.
I am a fan and own both systems, and that is why there is no perfect system for many reasons. That’s what makes the hobby fun.
I listen to the ESLs system 20 times more often, than the big sounding 105db sensitivity system. Why? I can abuse the ESLs system and don’t care or give a damn. There are way too many sand (silicon) based amps out there for sale and speakers that love them. So, it is easy to price and replace. The system is on 24x7 and gets plenty of abuse. Robust it is.
OTOH the "tube" base system requires more TLC, warmup, and voicing with the right amps is a b*tch to get right. Most amps are noisy, e.g. I have a pair of Canary M-80s that "hum" (no, it’s not a ground loop, etc. it is the amp) with tube rush that sounds like a babbling brook. Nothing wrong with the install or system. That’s the pitfall of a sensitivity system. Very few amps sound quiet and good. The quiet amps are choked to death with negative feedback, unity, or push/pull designs. After 40 years with this system I’ve tried/bought/borrowed/auditioned just about everything.
Bottom-line:
System#1 is extremely holographic, but extremely finicky and sometimes fragile . . . like a centuries old Scotch . . . use sparingly.
System#2 is not holographic and not fragile. Devil-may-care attitude applies.
And yes, everyone should have more than one system at both ends of sensitivity. Listening to the same source on two extremely different systems is like doubling one’s music collection. :)
Remember that there is no single "god" system. Voicing and a room smaller than 40ft x 40ft x 40ft impacts the sound, because the SWR goes up in small/tiny rooms (anything lower than 40ft ceiling). Yes, one can "fool" ears with room treatments into thinking that the SWR is low, but it isn’t. The standing waves are still there.
Best rooms out there?
- Wiener Staatsoper
- Pacific Pantages (when it was a theatre) - middle front row balcony seat
Have fun.
Cheers,
g