Very interesting thread....Thanks...
Higher End DACs
I am looking for a DAC (potentially streamer&DAC) to be paired in a mcintosh system (c1100/611). Its my first foray into digital streaming and I have no need for a CD player.
I see a lot of love for Esoteric, however, most seems to be around their transports? Are they not as renowned for pure digital streaming and/or standalone DACs? I see DCS (for instance) often referenced for standalone DACs - how does Esoteric compare?
I see a lot of love for Esoteric, however, most seems to be around their transports? Are they not as renowned for pure digital streaming and/or standalone DACs? I see DCS (for instance) often referenced for standalone DACs - how does Esoteric compare?
Showing 13 responses by mahgister
I have a lowly celeron NUC as my server. Its inside a 90dB RF-STOP isolation chamber with only optical I/O. This means zero RF noise escapes to impinge on my DAC and sounds, IMO, like endgame qualityIf you put some stones on your breaker panel you will discover that all the electrical grid of the house is only one integral piece, and that isolating one link from R.F. does not lower so much all the noise floor... This fact is underestimated completely.... And many companies sold some "magical" electronic component to solve this with some ready made solution out of the box...But controlling this noise floor is not the same thing than working only on one link as well electrically isolated as it is.... |
Thanks david_ten Very interesting article... I downloaded the music samples that the reviewer listen to also....I listen from my PC also.... It makes me envious of those who will be able to purchase this 24,000 Euro piece of engineering... But not too much envious tough, if I compare my listening with his description of the music samples used... Like I said in another thread almost all S.Q. comes from the implementation and controls of the 4 embeddings of an audio system at whatever price ( 60 % at least )more than from the electronical component "per se".... A consolation for the "poor" audiophile.... :) My best to you... |
What he says about the Lumin is probably true....Because what he says about audio is my own experience.... But « An extreme perfectionist always wants to win. 2nd place and less is for all born losers in this world. And has no meaning in my world» this is too much for me... And by the way i already own this "emotional" 3-d immersive musical natural timbre experience with my "loser" audio system....With low cost methods all homemade with few bucks elements I modified myself...I doubt that his zeal to sell something will listen to other possibilities that the possibilities that are already in his world...Anyway I am with the losers of the world, particularly in audio...I want that all people know that it is possible to afford music at very low costs... My best.... " I only enjoy an illusion of my own making" Groucho Marx |
A 10,000 thousands dollars dac cannot be used with 1000 amplifier+speakers...Then like you said the question is not about money "per se"...There is 3 rungs in the scale...We must know at which rung a product is in term of quality/ price... Second point, plugging directly to the wall is destructive of the sound, but you can alleviate that with modified and tweaked battery off the grid, or like me with homemade noise cleaning devices all along the electrical grid of the house, whose efficiency are vey high at relatively low costs...I will never upgrade my dac because of his low cost, and low noise with its minimal design, and no evident limitations in my 500 hundred dollars audio system...Each rung of the scale must be filled with products in the same rung... My methods was not trials and errors in the way of a buying spree process, my methods was correction a step at a times during one year, by a trials and error with systematic listenings experiments and corrections by feed back with low costs homemade creations, at the end of which my audio system were able to gives me emotions...Total cost: 1000 dollars E.C. +tweaks... I dont calculate one thousand dollars of trials and errors in unsucessful buyings before my systematic series of experiments, keeping always the good gear I owned after my buying spree... The general problem in audio is simple: people dont trust their ears, and dont give themselves the means to learn how to listen with experiments... By the way each one of us possess a unique and particular hearing system, with is limits, and deficiencies.... I dont speak when I speak about hearing to some superhuman perceiving bat power in me or others...I am 68 years old....I speak about working with our own listening potential in a learning process... I silence myself now.... Sorry if I had speak too much... My best to all... |
I dont believe in miraculous solution in general, when they exist they are always high cost. There exist differences between each rung of the 3 rungs scale, an amplifier of 500 dollars cannot beat a 10,000 one....But this being said, the fabulous upgrading of the sound I live with a low cost budget has transformed totally my system in this " emotional" space where it is impossible to turn off any musical files because it is too beautiful and unique...I trusted my ears and they guide me each step at a time....The ears know much than our conscious brain... I am not a fool ,there exist better systems than mine, my point is not boasting about my system, my point is debating the belief that it is necessary to pay big money to afford this "emotional" musical space... For me the dimensions of sound necessary to enjoy music are : natural timbre, imaging, soundstage, immersive presence, details, 3-d very precise locations of main instruments and background...Presence of harmonics in relations with all or most of the spectrum...My 4 points methods address the 4 level of perceived musical sound... I will not repeat it here tough.... I just want to gives hope to all people with low cost budget...I enjoy very much what I have and know why.... My best to all.... |
Bo I say the same exact thing for the last year in my thread... Except I dont sell dac, and my solution are low cost and homemade....Nodody believe me because it is not so simple to implement my 4 points methods and it is too much cheap to be true (around 500 hundred dollars). I own a 500 hundred dollars systems where the stage is 3-d holographic, timbre are natural, and music immersive....I apologize for my rant.... Blessings to all... |
The biggest problem in audio is the 100% fact that most audio products can not even reveal all aspects of sound. This can easily be proven by sound and stage.Wow! this is a first for me here.... You are right on the spot... I say that in my thread for the last year...And I describe there my own experiments and experience that lead me to the exact conclusion your just write... The only difference between you and me, I am only an ordinary guy with no background in science, I conduct my own experiments with my ears and listenings experiments without any knowledge... And I devise solutions homemade, new, and low costs a step at a time to please my ears ...Your solutions are probably better, but my own solutions drives me to the same conclusion than you.... I wrote the same thing in my thread.... Buying a new electronic component is not the way to upgrade a system because most people dont even know the real potential of their actual audio system and they dont even know that they dont know.... You said: «most audio products can not even reveal all aspects of sound» and for me the reason is linked to the deficient manner with which most people worked with the 4 points I described in my precedent post....Any relatively good product can reveal emotion and a good S. Q. if these 4 points are addressed.... The most important one being the electrical grid of the house( breaker panels, wall plug unused, router, box of optical cables etc). This is the reason why I think your product is probably very good...The electrical grid produce this electrical-smog that plague all audio system and is underestimated even by pro in audio.... I will not say something more here, because I dont own a high end dac and I dont want to derail this thread ….And people who are interested in high end dac are not interested by homemade low cost solutions in general.... My best to all... |
I make that with homemade cheap solutions addressing : 1-The mechanical environment of each electronic component (vibrations-resonances controls) 2-The electrical grid of the room and of the house 3a-the "passive" room treatment with materials absorbant and reflective ones 3b-the "active" acoustical space modifications with reflectors, Helmholtz resonators, Schumann generators,etc The emotion coming from the sound of an audio system is for me directly linked to the way we address these 4 points...Not only to the source like a dac.... |
bo1972 Very exciting and interesting posts....Thanks... It is the first times I read someone here that insist about "electro-smog" ( I will borrow your word if you give the right to me) with conviction and knowledge from experiments, what I had called in my thread, noise in the house electrical grid... My living experience is, at least 40% of the S.Q. ( Sound quality) comes from a cleaning of the house electrical grid...The other 30% comes from the passive treatment of the room with reflective and absorbent materials and active modifications of the acoustical space with also mechanical controls of vibrations-resonance...Only 30 % comes from the main electronical components for me, assuming an almost or relative equality or equivalence,a variation in quality instead of a transformation amongst all the products that are on the same rung; I assume 3 rungs scale price/ quality between products : low, mid, high...( These numbers are not science ,only metaphor to communicate my experience and experiments) Then the most important upgrade of all, living with products somewhere in a rung of this scale, is the cleaning of the electrical house grid, after that, passive and active modifications of the acoustical space and resonance controls....The third upgrade in an audio system is the change of a main electronic component ( turntable or dac, amplifier, speakers) but this upgrade is generally the least powerful of the three, contrary to the majority opinions, especially if your change remains in the same rung of the scale. In spite of this fact most people who talks upgrade speak about changing an electronic component , unbeknownst to them the powerful degradation induced by what you called the electro-smog in the electrical grid of house and room and in the electronic component also, all being linked in all including one audio system.... You create some new electronic component to clean this noise, Sbooster and Bonn N8, I use homemade low cost methods....I dont say that my cheap methods are equal in power to your research top of the line products, I only say that even with cheap homemade solutions I think the same exactly about what you call electro-smog....Most people like you said People have no idea how much you loose in dynamics, layers, and resolution due to the influence of electro-smog, high-frequent nose, and magnetism on sound and stage of an audio system.I am no scientist at all, only someone with no money that dreamed to create his own sound heaven....I make my dream comes true and want to communicate my enthusiasm to others and some solutions... My best to you …. |